RE: HR/Payroll Systems

I can't name names but I personally know of a company that migrated off
of Infinium due to some sort of corporate standard. They moved to what
was considered the largest market share vendor in HR/Payroll software.
The project took at least 2x times longer to finish than planned. The
costs ran to 5x the original estimate. Most companies involved in the
migration saw their payroll costs soar, processing time increase, a loss
in functionality, and more manual labor pushed back the clerk types.

I have heard that one of those companies might be sold and is thinking
about converting back to Infinium. Why? Savings of a millions of
dollars per year, shorter payroll cycle times, increased functionality,
and less manual work.

It's been a while so I can't speak specifically to the functionality of
Infinium in this area.

However, I would make a couple of recommendations:

1.) Someone should go back to your current vendor and smack them up
side the head. It's simple - keep a customer, lose a customer.
2.) Like all projects beware. The above scenario won't always be true
but those involved used a large consulting firm, threw lots of money at
it, and lots of people. Perfect example of Charlie foxtrot if I ever did
see it.
3.) Even though the self-service functionality will be cheaper
replacing the existing product won't be. Unlesss there is some other
reason to be unhappy with the current product making such a change
doesn't make sense. If you include migration costs the new product
can't be cheaper than the current one can it?

Michael Crump

Manager, Computing Services
Saint-Gobain Containers, Inc.
1509 S. Macedonia Ave.
Muncie, IN 47302
765.741.7696
765.741.7012 f

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-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Al Mac Wheel
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 9:52 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: RE: HR/Payroll Systems

Addition to the comments by other folks about RELIABILITY.

We have separation of IT duties. The guy who manages our Windows
network
is on vacation, and I do not want to bother him. It has been flaking
out
intermittently for some co-workers several times a day. I have not had
access to e-mail at work, or Excel on company shared servers since
Dec-21. I can't remember how many years since we have had AS/400 go
down
unexpectedly. All our problems have been due to phone line downage,
power
outages, people not knowing how to cope with printers.
I am amazed we cope so well. The Microsoft server is being bombarded
with
tens of thousands of virus laden spam every day.

This past weekend on our AS/400, I have completed
* End Day
* End Week
* End Month
* End Year
* Dump in Physical Inventory Tags
* Restructure our Costs from the Business rules of 2007 to those for
2008
* Backups at key points
* Upgraded a dozen programs to access the changed cost structure

I only had a mild disruption in 400 access during a power outage, over
that
dammed phone line. I have trouble believing the work I just did would
have
been doable, in same time frame, on a Windows network that has the rate
of
problems we have.

During weekend, I also managed to get several nites of sleep.

I think these are all iSeries applications. Not sure if any have an
employee self-service. I happen to also be in the market for a new
HR/Payroll system along with Budget/GL/AP so I had this list

already....

http://www.ngsi.com/company/concertseries.html

http://www.optimum-solutions.com/

http://www.unicornhro.com/renderers/softwarePlus/jsp/index.jsp/site/SWP

http://www.gamma-software.com/

http://www.2020software.com/products/SAP_Business_One.asp?tse=Google&ts

t=sap+financial+B&CMP=KNC-Google

http://www.infor.com/solutions/fms/

http://www.oracle.com/peoplesoft/integration.html

http://www.daprex.com/daprex/products/index.htm

-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Booth Martin
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 3:04 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: HR/Payroll Systems

Once they switch, they'll never admit there error and go back. If it
doesn't work the innocent will be blamed, then fired, and life will

move on.

Leibowitz, Larry wrote:

With our current hr/payroll system for the past 60 pay cycles (2+

Years)

I have been here, there have been no missed paydays, late checks or
major screw ups and definitely no system (i) down time. I will

indeed

keep track of the new systems record.

-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Paul Nelson
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 1:30 PM
To: 'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'
Subject: RE: HR/Payroll Systems

Payday gets especially interesting if you're a union shop where the
contract
allows for work stoppages if the checks are not delivered by a

certain

time.

Heck, I've seen contracts that called for the guys to get paid in

cash.

Paul Nelson
Cell 708-670-6978
Office 512-392-2577
nelsonp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx


-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Kevin.Brake@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 11:50 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: RE: HR/Payroll Systems

Ah, happiness is being able to count on actually getting paid

without

waiting for your system to be fixed.

The other side of this coin is that payroll software systems are
maintenance intensive from a development perspective. Unless you are

a

payroll systems software company or have sufficient expertise on

staff,

they can be cost prohibitive. Consider that if you have customers

who

could
be located anywhere or may have employees located anywhere, just

keeping

up
with the tax law changes across 50 states, the fed, and Canada can

be a

full time job.

My last employer was a ERP vendor specializing in mid size

manufacturing

-
we were down to around 70 customers who had the payroll module. We
offered
a free interface to ADP or Business Pro and the like for anyone who
would
stop using payroll in the hopes that we could get out of the PR
business.



Kevin Brake, MSSE
Applications and Business Analyst - Enterprise Solutions
Information & Technology Services
City of Goodyear
190 N. Litchfield Rd.
Goodyear, AZ 85338
623-882-7857
623-882-7858 (Fax)
kevin.brake@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx





"Leibowitz,

Larry"

<Larry.Leibowitz@
To
ced-concord.com> "Midrange Systems Technical

Sent by: Discussion"

midrange-l-bounce <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

s@xxxxxxxxxxxx
cc



Subject
12/31/2007 09:03 RE: HR/Payroll Systems

AM





Please respond to

Midrange Systems

Technical

Discussion

<midrange-l@midra

nge.com>









Well of Course HR/Payroll have no clue and it will be up to I.T. to

bail

them out. Hopefully our I.T. VP and Director will have some sensible
input but HR/Payroll is convinced it must change to make their lives
easier and employees happier?


-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 10:51 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: HR/Payroll Systems

Ah... well when giving them a price, make sure to add in the months

of

work
to convert over. If this is a Windows solution, make sure to add in

the

cost
of downtime. Then price out the cost of your programmers (if you

have

that
skill set) to write a web front-end to whatever they want.

From what I have heard about Lawson on Windows AND Unix, it isn't

as

stable
as it is on the System i. I can't say for sure with any other

system,

but I
could only imagine similar problems with large and complex payroll
systems.

On Dec 31, 2007 9:42 AM, Leibowitz, Larry
<Larry.Leibowitz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

That's exactly it Mike. Being we are a Small/Medium Size Company

with

about 125 Corporate Employees and roughly 1000 Branch Employees and

I

am

not quite sure of our annual Corporate Income since we a privately

owned

and I am not privy to that information. We currently use one of the
vendors mentioned below and they are indeed too pricy for us to

enable

their Self Service/Web Enabled offering. So on to a Windows

Based/SQL

Server Type of product HR/Payroll will lead us into. The gist of

this

is

exactly what Paul has eluded to "HR was enamored with being able to

use

a mouse".

-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 10:27 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: HR/Payroll Systems

They could do stuff like request vacation, see their check stubs,
request
changes to address, deductions, direct deposits. Basic stuff, but

items

that
take up a lot of payrolls time in large companies.

Infinium (or SSA Global) and Lawson Software had some decent

solutions,

but
you might find that while your package is quite expensive, moving

to a

new
application will be more so. Possibly system upgrades as well.

Depending on your shop, maybe you just want to write it yourself.

On Dec 31, 2007 9:19 AM, <rob@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I am curious as to what the employee could self service? Don't

assume

anything. Like, if their name doesn't match their Social Security

card

EXACTLY when you send in your W2 information electronically then

you

could

be fined $50/W2. At least that's the way it was back in the dark

ages

when I worked on the payroll system. Must be somewhat still in

force

as

they made us drag out our SSN cards not too long ago to verify

spelling.

Maybe Direct Deposit information?
401K contribution?
Income tax deduction?
List of dependents?
Emergency contact information?
Life insurance beneficiary?
Address?
Phone #(s)?

Rob Berendt
--
Group Dekko Services, LLC
Dept 01.073
PO Box 2000
Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com





"Leibowitz, Larry" <Larry.Leibowitz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Subject
HR/Payroll Systems






Our HR/Payroll Department is considering moving from our current

System

i Software Vendor to a more Employee Self Service/Web Enabled

Product.

Our current System i Vendor offers the Employee Self Service/Web

Enabled

Product but at a much Larger Cost. HR/Payroll would rather switch

than

pay this cost. Does anyone have any suggestions on a lower cost
HR/Payroll Application on the System i with the Employee Self
Service/Web Enabled features? Other wise it's another application

loss

off of our System i and this does not bode well for me; the System

i

Administrator/Application Guy.



TIA.