RE: IBM not investing in i5/OS was: iSociety

Rick, it was like listening to my own words reading this post, except more
eloquent. You've exactly described the plight of the System i developer and
how we are different than a PC development shop. For whatever reason, a PC
environment typically has at least one person who can sit around and play
with new stuff, but in the midrange trenches we pretty much work for a
living all day, every day, and twice on Sunday.

The person who most needs the tool is someone like you, and the idea that
you can do a multi-gigabyte download, a multi-hour install (and then maybe a
second pass for PTFs), and then somehow get the time to do a full valuation
of the product in 30 or 60 or even 90 days, is out of the question. Think
about it - in 90 days you typically have three month ends and a quarter end.
After that, how much play time do you actually have?

The tool ought to be easily supplied electronically via PTF, or at least on
DVDs with the latest PTFs pre-applied. Installation needs to be simple and
mostly hands-free (which with Installation Manager, it pretty much is). But
most important, it needs to come with a long enough time period for
exploration. Because if we use it and like it, we WILL buy it. Trial
periods are to get you to love the product and use it for many years, not to
somehow get revenue in 90 days.

I'm going to forward this to several people who need to hear it. Thanks for
being so honest.

Joe

From: Rick DuVall

Hello Joe,

Comments in line.

Thursday, November 15, 2007, 4:48:26 PM, you wrote:

Gotta get on the stump again here.

Have you guys actually tried EGL? Look, there are two ways to do

things:

learn the basics and program it yourself. IBM has provided you that

with

unrivaled support for JSP Model 2 for about a decade. Everybody says,

"Boo

hoo hoo, Java is too hard for me, I can't do it."

Having complained to IBM in regard to EGL being un-bundled, I was
offered a free download. I think. I have been unable to find it or
make it work in the very limited time I have to spare.

I write Java every day - not an expert - just producing GUI APPS
where needed with swing. I would like to look into EGL, but it's
kind of hard to find the time when it *may* be priced out of my
reach at any time. And I have been bit *hard* with wonderful claims
from tool producers that don't pan out in the long run. I am not
going to invest any more money in tools until I can see where it
will pay *US* to use it in *OUR* environment in the long run. I
wouldn't mind paying for a tool that was really useful - I just
don't believe advertising.

I wanted to do some of the tutorials and play with the wizards but I
haven't been able to get it downloaded. I work ten or more hours a
day and still stay behind the 8ball. For every project we finish we
have 2 more added to the list. If IBM thinks they want someone like
me to use EGL they might want to make it bit easier to get... Given
the course of a year, I can find a little time here and there to
explore. If the tool is lying here in front of me I will eventually
get some time to play with it.

Maybe my shop it atypical. Maybe I'm just not too bright. I am
certain that I am Overworked. <grin> I would dearly love to give it
a good try - just can't get it to come around on the guitar...

I don't get it. If the issue is ease of development, EGL is the
answer. What are you waiting for?

Joe

waiting for it to come around on the guitar I guess...

--
Best regards,
Rick