I agree Trevor,

There is however a difference between coding in WDSc or whatever and
ignoring what a manager tells someone to do, ok if he insists then go find
another job(if you can), but I don't think many managers would object how
you do things if you achieve the end result, unless you cost them time and

I have not got the time to trawl through the archives but some people have
said that they re-write programs as and when they come across them, if
they give no reason other than that then what are we to assume? If I
recall correctly (possibly I don't) I did reply to someone who said they
did it purely because it was RPGIII, so I only can say what I read.

I have to disagree on the coding in SEU vs WDSc showing a lack of
initiative, I tried in my last job (the manager didn't mind) to use WDSc
but the version they had was so out of date that it was practically
unworkable after a while, and they were not prepared to spend time or
money or both to make me happy( I am only a contractor after all), and
being a developer is not just coding, so as with everything there are
always 7,632.239 sides to any story. :-)

And as for being happy to code in RPGII, III, 400 or whatever, Charles, if
that is all that is available to you as it is to a I think, then why not
be happy, it is not always possible to find that job that has everything
that you want and some people have families to provide for so they take
what they can get, and no I will not be labeled as having just a "job" and
not a career just because I cannot find a position offering what I want,
after all we all have to eat, so be prepared to be shocked cos some people
are happy in whatever they do! ;-)



I don't think we are disagreeing in spirit. I would maintain that if
used WDSc instead of PDM, and were fired for it, you would hire them.

It takes some initiative to HAVE a career, and if a prospective employee
still coding in SEU because they were told to, it shows a lack of
initiative. Regardless of whether or not you have retired your brain in
preparation for retiring at your job, I think it is important to be a
developer, not just an RPGII or RPGIII programmer.

As for modernization, this list is not the bible. This list is a place
individual questions are addressed. There are major business reasons why
free format should be adopted. And just because a company adopts it, does
not mean they should immediately "replace" every line of code with it. You
don't see all of the reasons, since most people are answering a specific
question. To claim that people advocate modernization "just because"
does not do justice to the resource here.


On 10/8/07 8:50 AM, "Stephen.Raby@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx"
<Stephen.Raby@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Trevor Perry <trevor@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
08/10/2007 14:17
Please respond to
Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

Re: No giving up on System i (was: I'm about to give up)


It blows my mind that you ignore all the good advice, find one small
and pick it.

Of course, you don't jeopardize your career!

WHOA WHOA The quote was

"> 6. Ignore the "boss" who tells you to keep using SEU+PDM and risk
on becoming more productive at coding - leading to reduced maintenance.
you lose your job, complain here - or apply to the places that complain
here all the time that there are no resources available."

That in my mind is not a 'small nit'. That was the point I was making,
advocating someone jeopardize their career, and I don't think there is
other interpretation on that statement, unless English is not your first

There are people, however, who can spend time on the side to do
they were told not to do - say,
WDSc, and after researching in their own time, return to their boss
true productive means to reduce maintenance, and offer it.

Something I did myself, if you want read my mails from last year.

The problem is, there are a lot of people in management who have their
agenda. If you want to work for them, fine - just stop whining that you
cannot do anything. You ALWAYS can - you just have to risk a little.

The problem is that many people on the "shop floor" can only see things
from their narrow perspective, they do not know what the big picture
is,(awful cliche but works sometimes) money cannot always be given get
latest technological advances, even if the manager wants it.

As for modernization for the sake of modernization, that is certainly
approach you can hear from vendors. On this list, no one seems to
that - you must be reading something between the lines that is not
There are many business reasons to modernize, and if you use the excuse
you should not, because everyone is just saying "do it", then your
brain is not engaged.

I have seen on more than one occasion on this list when newbies ask
to start they are advised to go straight to free format ILE, don't
with the "old" stuff, which, as there are still millions of lines of
stuff code out there, is limiting their options a little. Also I have
people state that if they come across an old program they just re-write
it, fine if your manager has the money to allow that, not so fine if the
manager is on a tight budget and you should be fixing the problem with
invoicing. And if you have nothing to do other than re-write programs

And, call me old-fashioned but, I would still see "And tell them that
were a leader in IT, but your previous boss was not" as, "he doesn't do
he is told". But then I am just a miserable old git who doesn't see
as an absolute necessity to my remaining existance, but more of, lets do
it when we can and I will probably be retired before I see it anyway.


This thread ...


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