RE: HASB mulls new computer system

I addressed the up-front costs.  For a complete environment, you cannot
just consider hardware + OS.

- Take your p5 or your Windows box (using Steve's numbers: $5-10K).  
- Add a database (per Steve another $5K for 1 CPU for DB2 Express).
We'll assume 'Express' is sufficient. 
- Add utility software for backups, anti-virus (on Windows) etc.
($500-1000).  
- If Windows, add virtualization capabilities or more servers for
separation of workload ($4K for virtualization software & extra hardware
like disks/RAM or 2x that initial $5-10K per server; $4-10K more
overall).  
- Add at least 1 tape drive to your Windows environment to match the
included 30GB QIC in the iSeries: $1400.  Of course, this is just for
your database machine.  The other servers won't have an inherent method
of being backed up.

Realistic up-front cost: $15.9-27.4K.  At this point you're easily
within the same price range as Steve's $22K iSeries.

That's without considering the cost of actually operating the
environment: Staff, operations, DR, consulting/implementation, etc.

John A. Jones, CISSP
Americas Information Security Officer
Jones Lang LaSalle, Inc.
V: +1-630-455-2787 F: +1-312-601-1782
john.jones@xxxxxxxxxx

-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of mlazarus@xxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 11:18 AM
To: midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: HASB mulls new computer system

John,

 We've all heard the TCO mantra from IBM for a long time now. 
Unfortunately, when the bean counters allocate budget dollars, it's
being spent on the computer system *now*, not in 3-5 years.  So the i5
doesn't make it through the initial selection process.  That's why it's
too expensive.

 And IBM can't just do a "me too" and change the pricing to the Unix
model (e.g. separating out all the software components.)  I think that
they have to include all the "goodies" AND compete on *initial* price.
Make it a no-brainer choice in the i5's direction.  Then we'll see some
real growth. 
(Of course there needs to be marketing too, but that a whole other
discussion.)

 -mark

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Jones, John \(US\) John.Jones@xxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:24:02 -0600
To: midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: HASB mulls new computer system


Please add the price of the database application to your non-iSeries
solutions.  Also include backup software and other necessary utilities
as what comes with Unix & Windows is not sufficient.

Please consider the total cost of operating the machine(s).  That
includes hardware & software and also includes 3rd party software, HW/SW
maintenance, and of course staff/consultant time.  I won't bother with
reliability/uptime configurations.

Please consider that if using a Windows solution, most vendors will
encourage you (i.e. may not support you otherwise) to have separate web,
app, and database servers so you may have to multiply your hardware
costs by 3 or buy a bigger (more $) box & use VMWare.

John A. Jones, CISSP
Americas Information Security Officer
Jones Lang LaSalle, Inc.
V: +1-630-455-2787 F: +1-312-601-1782
john.jones@xxxxxxxxxx

-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steve Richter
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:56 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: HASB mulls new computer system

On 3/29/06, Pete Helgren <Pete@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Our sales/marketing guy emailed me last night with a copy of what he 
> is sending to the board members.  They currently aren't a customer of 
> ours.  We have pitched our solution to them several times which is:
>
> 1. Continue with the existing software on a new i5 (lower total TCO).
> 2. Switch to us for maintenance and support on the application.
> 3. Become a member of our open source community which gives them some 
> immediate enhancements to the product, most of them new GUI (HTML) 
> interfaces to existing data.
>
> Our challenge is that we don't have a complete replacement for their 
> existing software, yet.  The beauty of our approach is that we can 
> continue to support them with their existing 5250 based applications 
> while releasing new functionality.  We use the same database so 
> whether our program updates the data or the original 5250 application 
> updates the data, it still resides in the same database.
>
> Unfortunately we don't hear of these folks until the damage is already

> done (again, they aren't customers of ours, we prospect for them but 
> sometime finding them is difficult).  Getting them to upgrade to an i5

> is sometimes like pushing water uphill.  They already see the i5 as 
> just an "newer" AS/400.  They don't see it as the wonderfully 
> flexible, powerful box that it is.
>
> We are on this.  It's too bad that we don't engage these folks before 
> they already have made some faulty assumptions.

A lot of good info Pete.

As I read your posts the customer wants an application which is access
thru the browser.  Putting MSFT to the side, the xSeries or p5 based
solution has an IBM starting price of $5K to $10K.  For similar
performance on the i5, that is 3000 CPW, the starting price is $22K+. 
Why pay the extra $15K? For green screen compatibility that the customer
can do without?

The villain here is not the uninformed customer.  It is IBM pricing of
the i5.

http://www.itjungle.com/tfh/tfh032706-story01.html

"... Like many people in the OS/400 community, if I have an argument at
all, it is almost never with IBM's Rochester labs, ....., but rather
with IBM's Somers offices, where the marketing and sales plans are
hatched and where the pricing and packaging decisions are made.
... Getting Somers to listen is hard, since the marketeers aim to make
as much money in the shortest term with the least possible amount
effort. They do this because that's what marketeers at public companies
do. ..."

-Steve

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