RE: Green screen to GUI

Amen brother.  

Personally, (and this is going to get me booed on this list...) I would love to 
see a port of MS Visual Basic to the iSeries.

-----Original Message-----
    From: "Rick DuVall"<R_C_DuVall@xxxxxxxxxx>
    Sent: 9/21/05 10:38:08 AM
    To: "Midrange Systems Technical Discussion"<midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
    Subject: RE: Green screen to GUI
    
    Hi Jeff,
    
        I have felt the same for a long time.  It is
    annoying/embarrassing/exasperating to be talking to someone outside the
    company about a project,  explaining that we are running on the
    As/400-iSeries-i5, only to be met with the 'Oh, that's one of those old
    legacy machines isn't it?' or something similar.  There is nothing I can
    say.  I've tried all the possibilities - 'Dear, the AS/400 was a 64 bit
    powerhouse while Windows was only...' and so forth.  Anything I say has no
    effect - for the most part - they don't have the knowledge or experience to
    comprehend.  The only thing that would make a dent in their smug dismissal
    would be a true graphical interface and the tools to make easy use of it.
    
        We had better admit it - we live in a graphical world.  All the
    integration/stability/security in the world will not win over the
    uneducated/inexperienced, but one simple graphical interface can start the
    process. (a picture is worth more than a thousand words)
    
        I have been an c/rpg programmer since 1988 - mostly rpg.  I use
    subprocedures and ILE and make use of the various API's available when
    needed.  I have taken classes and read about java - we even use it
    extensively in xml processing.  But I have just spent the previous week or
    so blundering through trying to get a web service to run on WAS Express 5.0.
    I finally succeeded,  but my point is the Microsoft guys I have worked with
    would jeeringly state - 'I could have had that done in two hours on a
    microsoft platform with microsoft tools.'  AND THEY ARE RIGHT!  I've seen
    it. DAMMIT!
    
        I don't know what the answer is - I was interviewing a guy the other 
day -
    bright guy - late 20's with a masters degree in cs - a real hot dog.  He
    asked what kind of server we ran and I replied with the 'IBM iSeries'
    string.  He replied yeah, but what does it run, Windows 2003 server?  He had
    no idea what I was talking about.
    
        I don't know where I am going with this - I guess I'm just blowing off
    steam.  But I am getting tired of everybody else (non-iSeries) blowing
    through projects that I have to sweat blood to perform.  I need some tools
    that are on a par with Micro$oft's.  I need wizards that ACTUALLY WORK!
    Everything has to be ARCANE!  Even the simplest things have some little part
    of it obfuscated in the manuals that make it a major effort to implement.
    
        Oh well, like Jeff said - Back to work...
    
    Regards and apologies for ranting
    
    Rick DuVall
    Systems Manager
    Dealer's Auto Auction of Okc
    405 947-2886 Ext:143
    rick@xxxxxxxxxx
    
    
    -----Original Message-----
    From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
    [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Jeff Crosby
    Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 7:19 AM
    To: 'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'
    Subject: Green screen to GUI
    
    
    There's an interesting discussion on iSeries Network about the perception of
    the AS400/iSeries/i5.  In the area of green screen vs GUI, a poster makes
    the following observation (pay particular attention to the second
    paragraph):
    
    <thepost>
    
    IBM's Developer's Road Map is IBM's way of recusing itself from dealing with
    the reality of the green-screen dilemma. Even if you accept the WebSphere
    value proposition, there's a chasm between the green-screen environment and
    the full-tilt Java/RPG/WebSphere environment IBM wants for its customers.
    IBM proposes HATS and WebFacing: HATS is limited use; WebFacing is not much
    different than being invited to tie the noose at your own hanging. CGIDEV
    won't die, in spite of IBM's bumbling efforts to treat it like an old Eskimo
    (push it out on an ice floe and let it die).
    
    Since the early 70's, IBM has, generally speaking, provided an integrated
    solution for midrange customers. Consider IBM's investment in the
    S/36-to-AS/400 conversion and the AS/400 S/36 environment, and you have to
    wonder how IBM could miss the strategic importance of having a Blue Roadmap
    for the moving to browser-based applications instead of throwing the
    responsibility out to 3rd parties. I believe moving off green-screen
    applications is the most signficant change the iSeries community has ever
    faced, and IBM's response has been to stand on the other side of the river,
    waving, and saying the water's not too cold.
    
    </thepost>
    
    Until I read the above, I (in the words of the caller to Mr Obvious on Bob &
    Tom) had "never made the connection".  It suddenly dawned on me how well IBM
    handled things for us S/36 customers going to an AS/400.  It was a complete
    solution, end-to-end, at your company's pace, one step at a time, everything
    covered to the nth degree.  That's what IBM did, "provide a complete
    integrated solution for midrange customers" which is how IBM cultivated such
    loyalty, while at the same time, we, as customers, could concentrate on
    business solutions.
    
    Contrast that with burger flipping ads.  IBM completely missed what was
    needed when it came to green screen to GUI.
    
    Oh well.  Back to work.
    
    --
    Jeff Crosby
    Dilgard Frozen Foods, Inc.
    P.O. Box 13369
    Ft. Wayne, IN 46868-3369
    260-422-7531
    
    
    -- 
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