Re: Help me Justify iSeries -- MIDRANGE-L

if you are going to spend the kinda bucks for switching - walking away
from $200k server and all the infrastrure in place then do 2 things:
1. go to an executive briefing at Rochester (with your boss) to see what you
are walking away from.
2. Get a fixed contract bid for replacement ERP system that includes at
minimum the reliability and security and features of your present system,
with your proposed HA, training, hardware, a VERY robust security suite for
running your corp on the most hacked operating system ever, think of
everything, with a zillion dollar penalty for failure to deliver. I think
you will be shocked at that price. Stop sitting around the table ballparking
total ERP replacement in your head...(just like joe's cheap pc that suddenly
got more expensive when you add reliability requirements...and no mention of
security, HA, the critical update & maint time, & on & on).

and finally - if you have to add even 1 - 2 more support techs with benefits
to run this new system, you've probably blown your savings over time.
jim
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ron_adams@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Midrange Systems Technical Discussion" <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 10:58 AM
Subject: RE: Help me Justify iSeries


> Thanks everybody for some great comments. Unfortunately, I haven't seen
> anything really that I haven't already said to my boss.
>
> I've been on the midrange platform since '89 and happen to think it's
> solid and would not even dream of running a business class app on Wintel.
> But, the impression here by upper management is that this platform is
> costly in hardware, software and maintenance. And for the most part their
> right. I know that it's a solid and secure platform and maintaining it is
> a piece of cake. But, I just can't convince management that the money
> spent is worth it.
>
> For the record we're a "smallish" shop. We have 5 Wintel (Dell) servers at
> HQ running Win2K and 2003. We run Lotus Notes here and at each of our
> remote sites on Wintel (Dell) servers that also serve as file servers for
> each of those locations. Total of 11 Wintel servers which were probably
> around $4500 each ($49500). The staff is comprised of myself, and another
> guy. I handle midrange ERP systems which includes the i5 and an older
> HP3000. The other guy handles the Wintel servers and network/pc support
> (he stays very busy), but I back him up sometimes as does my boss. We've
> loaded SQL server on a couple of the Wintel machines as well as ESSbase.
> If you look at the figures from a 3-year standpoint, the Wintel servers,
> which have been solid for the most part with very minimal down-time over
> the last year, the Wintel server(s) win.
>
> I know that if we switch to a Wintel platform for our business ERP, the
> costs are going to go up, as we'll need some more servers with more disk,
> CPU and memory but still it won't equal the cost of the iSeries and all of
> its apps and hardware, plus maintenance.
>
> Sorry guys, but from a cost (only) standpoint the iSeries just can't
> compete, and that's where my boss and upper management are.
>
> Ron Adams
>
>
>
>
>
> "Ingvaldson, Scott" <SIngvaldson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent by: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> 05/27/2005 08:24 AM
> Please respond to Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
>
>
>         To:     <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>         cc:
>         Subject:        RE: Help me Justify iSeries
>
>
> It shouldn't be that hard (for an iSeries professional) to justify an
> iSeries.  When was the last time your iSeries went down?
>
> We currently have a sign posted on the Data Center door that reads
> "Number of days since last unscheduled IPL - 525, Previous Record 307"
> This sign refers to our 390 Mainframe.
>
> Our last Intel server outage was last night, this time we actually had 6
> hours of advance notice, the notice read:
> Between 10:00 p.m. and Midnight tonight, the Database Administration
> department will be rebooting a server to resolve a high CPU usage issue.
> >From 10:00 p.m. until Midnight tonight, the following
> systems/applications will be unavailable:
>
> KPoint
> Sales Logix
> SurfControl
> LegalFiles
> EPS
> Prism
> Remedy
> IntraDoc
> Primavera
>
> I have had to send out exactly one of these notices, (in five years) due
> to one user who was unable to receive a request through MQ Series (on a
> Saturday!)  This scheduled (MQ Series only) outage had been communicated
> to the user's manager who did not forward it to his group.
>
> Certainly it is expensive to have a hot D/R system sitting idle, but
> seriously, does your company have 100 Windows boxen sitting idly by
> waiting for your disaster?  The reality is that if 24x7 uptime is your
> goal I can't imagine why a Windows solution would even be on the table.
>
> Then go check out (and send your boss) the Laughing Boardroom i5
> commercials at TUG:
> http://www.tug.ca/Sing-i5-iSeriesChoir.html
>
> Seriously, the best argument that I've heard against the iSeries is that
> it takes so few (often only one) people to administer it that it might
> be difficult to replace them if the iSeries admin were to get hit by a
> bus.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Ingvaldson
> iSeries System Administrator
> GuideOne Insurance Group
> -- 
> Remember, only you can prevent forest fires...
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> date: Thu, 26 May 2005 21:23:15 -0500
> from: ron_adams@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> subject: Help me Justify iSeries
>
> My boss has the impression that running on the iSeries/AS400 is more
> costly than a Wintel platform with something like Oracle or SQL Server.
>
> I'm a staunch supporter of the iSeries, however, my boss who came from a
>
> Microsoft environment seems to think its so much more expensive to stay
> on
> the iSeries due to hardware and software costs. How can I convince him
> that this where our business needs to be? Or, has the time come to give
> up
> the fight?
>
> BTW: the scale-tipping factor was the high cost of a backup machine for
> D-R purposes. We're looking at about $20K to buy a new low-end 520 with
> V5R3 and enough DASD to put in another location as a hot-site. The
> production machine is an Enterprise Class 520 that we purchased in Sept
> of
> last year. The total cost including all of our software licenses was
> around $200K.  I hate to say it, but I think he may be right. I agree
> that
> iSeries is a stable and secure platfor that is highly capable of running
>
> our business, but unfortunately, they're only looking at the bottom
> line.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ron Adams
>
> -- 
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