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  3. April 2005

Re: MIDRANGE-L Digest, Vol 4, Issue 602

Where can I get a good basic knowledge of what Webshpere is and what it does?

John R. Morency
(763) 546-2137
jrmorency@xxxxxxxxxxxx
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Subject: MIDRANGE-L Digest, Vol 4, Issue 602


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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Removing constraints (Vernon Hamberg)
  2. Re: Who Uses WebSphere Express? (Mark Phippard)
  3. Re: Fw: SAVF from V5R3 to V4R5 (Zvi Kave)
  4. Re: Removing constraints (R Bruce Hoffman)
  5. RE: Who Uses WebSphere Express? (Joe Pluta)
  6. Re: Removing constraints (David Gibbs)
  7. Re: Removing constraints (R Bruce Hoffman)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

message: 1
date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 21:37:58 -0600
from: Vernon Hamberg <vhamberg@xxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: Removing constraints

I think maybe I'm confused - what DDS keyword establishes a primary key?
AFAIK, the key of a PF is not the same thing as the primary key. For one
thing, the primary key has to be unique and the key of a PF does not have
that requirement. And in a DSPFD TYPE(*CST), the key of a PF will not be
listed, unless you've used SQL DDL or ADDPFCST to add it. And in DSPFD
TYPE(*ACCPTH), the PF key is listed with "Constraint type = NONE".

Vern

At 06:32 PM 4/2/2005, you wrote: 
Right. But primary key constraints, in a typical iSeries environment are
actually specified in the DDS.

If you are using SQL DDL and specify the primary keys as constraints,
separate from the definition of the table, then, again, you can apply
them from the DDL source. That's just a learned thing.

I'm not implying that there isn't some other underlying problem with the
save and restore, but, with full SQL DDL sources, you should be able to
readily repair any constraint damage caused by the save restore, and
only have to rely on the table data making it back.

Managed DDL sources have everything ordered by drop, create table,
create primary keys, create unique keys, create inversion keys, create
foreign keys, create value constraints. They can then be applied by
range, even in the CA SQL execution utilities.

Question, did you ever resolve if the save was done with ACCPTH(*YES)? 



------------------------------

message: 2
date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 22:37:19 -0500
from: Mark Phippard <MarkP@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: Who Uses WebSphere Express?

Joe.

We use it and have for a long time. I think WAS Express is a great product
and with 6.0 it just gets better.

We also sell an iSeries Helpdesk product called ExpressDesk that is largely
built on WAS Express. We do not force our customers to run it on WAS
Express or on iSeries, but the vast majority do so.

A live demo is here, running on WAS Express 5.1 on an OS/400 LPAR on a
model 520.

http://support.softlanding.com/xdesk/

As an ISV, you do not want to sell a product that relies on something that
is going to be difficult for the customer to install or maintain, and
certainly something that is not reliable. We have never had to do anything
other than telephone based support for our customers. All of them have
been able to install WAS Express and our app on their own, with just phone
support from us. The only hard part, and this largely went away with V5R3,
is that if the customer did not already have WAS Express installed, there
are a fair amoint of Group PTF's to apply, which means an IPL. At the same
time, that is the benefit of using an IBM supported product - it actually
has fixes available. Also, the handful of times we have run into weird
issues and had to involve IBM support, the issue was already resolved
quickly, telling me that IBM has a good support organization in place for
this product.

To say WAS Express is not production-ready is libelous.  I did not see the
post, perhaps this person had some legitimate bad experiences.  That does
not mean the product is not top notch.

Mark


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------------------------------

message: 3
date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 04:35:54 -0700 (PDT)
from: Zvi Kave <zvikave@xxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: Fw: SAVF from V5R3 to V4R5



Vernon,

It seems that I am not familiar enough with the virtual optical drive options.
1. You are talking about CD images, but where do I put my desired OS/400 library/ies
in all this procedure ?
Nothing is mentioned about this issue.
2. Can you make it more clear how to read the virtual CD image to normal OS/400
library in lower version (V4R5).

Please help.

Best regards,

Zvi



Zvi Kave <tzvik@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

----- Original Message ----- From: "Vernon Hamberg"
To: "Midrange Systems Technical Discussion"
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: SAVF from V5R3 to V4R5


Sure, here's stab at it. Basically, you create a directory for an image
catalog, then create the image catalog, then add *NEW entries to the image
catalog. Each image catalog entry will have a corresponding file in the
directory you created. These files are ISO-9660 images that can be burnt
to CD or DVD using "Create CD from hard drive image" option - whatever
it's called - in the various burners. Or, in your case, can be FTP'd to
any FTP server - does not need to be iSeries - and then FTP'd back to the
V5R3 box, remounted in an image catalog, and used for restore or whatever.

1. MKDIR '/tmp/optical' (your name will be different, probably) to create
the directory where the image catalog will reside. This is a one-time
operation.

2. CRTIMGCLG MYIMGCLG DIR('/tmp/optical') to make the image catalog in the
directory you created. You only do this once.

3. ADDIMGCLGE IMGCLG(MYCLG) FROMFILE(*NEW) TOFILE(MYFILE01) IMGSIZ(*CD650)
to add a CD-size image entry to the image catalog. The file MYFILE01 will
be in the directory you created. This file can be sent anywhere. Add all
the image entries you need.

4. I think you need to initialize the image entries - INZOPT is the
command to use.

5. WRKIMGCLG is the command to use for doing a lot of this stuff - it
calls WRKIMGCLGE for maintaining the entries. There is not at this time a
really good way to DSPIMGCLG or DSPIMGCLGE, but if you use the file name
for the optical volume ID and use OUTPUT(*PRINT) or *OUTFILE on the saves,
you should have the file names available for automating file transfer.

I've not done the automated part but it seems it should work. For more
information, check out the various image catalog commands at InfoCenter -
WRKIMGCLG, WRKIMGCLGE, LODIMGCLG, ADDIMGCLGE, RMVIMGCLGE, etc. There's
also a good discussion on image catalogs deep in the Linux installation
section of InfoCenter.

HTH
Vern


At 10:03 AM 3/31/2005, you wrote: 
Vernon,

Please send few example command lines to explain
how can I transfer AS/400 libraries by the Virtual drive
from V5R3 to V4R5.

Regards,

Zvi



Vernon Hamberg wrote:
Wayne

This can be an all AS/400 solution, too. The virtual optical drive is
really an IFS object the size of a CD (or DVD for that matter). At V5R3
you
can create an image catalog with multiple entries. The save will span
them,
just as it does with tape. Then the corresponding IFS files can be FTP'd
to
your V4R5 system - again, it's just an IFS object - no VRM information in
that object, only in its contents. And you have the extra benefit that you
can burn the images to plastic if you want.

Vern

At 02:41 AM 3/29/2005, you wrote:
>I'm trying to automate this fully so that a nightly job cna be run to >do
>the backup and transfer the files. This pretty much dictates an all
>AS/400 solution.
>
>Bryan Dietz wrote:
>>One other option is to use V5R3 ability to save to a virtual option
>>drive.
>>Then you could use that ISO image to write to a PC's CD drive.
>>this allows you to save multiple libraries to the same virtual optical
>>media.
>>
>>Check the info center:
>>This link should help:
>>http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/iseries/v5r3/ic2924/index.htm?i
nfo/rzam4/rzam4virtualuse.htm
>>
>>----------------------------
>>Bryan Dietz
>>Aktion Associates
>>
>>midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote on 03/28/2005 05:48:42 PM:
>>
>>>Thanks to all who replied. I've run a test by creating a SAVF on the
>>>V4R5 system and FTP'ing the SAVF from the V5R3 system. It appears to
>>>have completed successfully. I'm going to do it with a dummy library
>>>and files to be sure that I can go in the opposite direction and do a
>>>restore back to the V5R3 system. If that doesn't work, I'll pursue >>>the
>>>IFS solution.
>
>
>--
>This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
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------------------------------

message: 4
date: 03 Apr 2005 08:17:10 -0400
from: R Bruce Hoffman <bruce.hoffman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: Removing constraints

True. I may not have been precise enough in my language there. My fault.

Generally in dealing with iSeries shops, when they say primary key, they
aren't usually refering to a "real" SQL DDL primary key constraint, but
either a logical file's or the physical file's key specification that
they consider to be primary.

No matter. What I was getting at was is this a mixed DDS and SQL DDL
schema/library or completely SQL DDL schema?

In the case of the former, I know that unique keys in physical files are
"consumed" by the process of adding a primary key constraint to the file
if that access path can provide the constraint. What I don't recall is
the "sharing" of access paths if the so called "primary key" is actually
in a logical file when the DDL primary key constraint is applied. (Is it
shared or not?)

And in the case of the completely SQL DDL schema... is it managed by a
tool or at least by a member/file of DDL statements?

Now, as I read back... I dunno... maybe I'm still confusing? <VBG>


On Sat, 2005-04-02 at 22:37, Vernon Hamberg wrote: 
I think maybe I'm confused - what DDS keyword establishes a primary key?
AFAIK, the key of a PF is not the same thing as the primary key. For one
thing, the primary key has to be unique and the key of a PF does not have
that requirement. And in a DSPFD TYPE(*CST), the key of a PF will not be
listed, unless you've used SQL DDL or ADDPFCST to add it. And in DSPFD
TYPE(*ACCPTH), the PF key is listed with "Constraint type = NONE".

Vern

At 06:32 PM 4/2/2005, you wrote:
>Right. But primary key constraints, in a typical iSeries environment are
>actually specified in the DDS.
>
>If you are using SQL DDL and specify the primary keys as constraints,
>separate from the definition of the table, then, again, you can apply
>them from the DDL source. That's just a learned thing.
>
>I'm not implying that there isn't some other underlying problem with the
>save and restore, but, with full SQL DDL sources, you should be able to
>readily repair any constraint damage caused by the save restore, and
>only have to rely on the table data making it back.
>
>Managed DDL sources have everything ordered by drop, create table,
>create primary keys, create unique keys, create inversion keys, create
>foreign keys, create value constraints. They can then be applied by
>range, even in the CA SQL execution utilities.
>
>Question, did you ever resolve if the save was done with ACCPTH(*YES)?

--
"Bigamy is having one wife too many. Monogamy is the same."
-- Oscar Wilde



------------------------------

message: 5
date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 07:26:51 -0500
from: "Joe Pluta" <joepluta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: RE: Who Uses WebSphere Express?

Thanks, Mark.  That's what I said as well.  This was a vendor of an
RPG-CGI product, and they're up in arms because I said JSP Model II is
architecturally superior to RPG-CGI.  That's not to say that there
aren't business cases where RPG-CGI makes sense, but from a pure
technology standpoint, JSP Model II wins.

The vendor in question insists that RPG-CGI is more scalable than JSP
Model II.  First he said WebSphere won't run on a model 270, and when I
burst his bubble on that, he started with the scalability issue.  He's
also got a user of his product in the forum, and that user already
impugned your statement, saying basically that you're just pitching
WebSphere because your product runs on it.  He says that "among normal
users, not ISVs of WebSphere Express products, WebSphere is a novelty".

In fact, it's been quite an attack on WebSphere in general, which is
exactly what I predicted in my article.  There will be the 100% pure
Java faction and the 100% pure RPG faction, and between them they're
going to try to splinter the market.

But it's impossible to beat the flexibility of a merged architecture,
with a JSP Model II user interface talking to a RPG back end.  You can
go from 100% Pure Java and no RPG, to an extremely thin Java veneer and
nearly 100% RPG, depending on your business requirements.  And your
architecture can even shift with time as you acquire new skill sets.

But there will be diehards.  People who either drank the 100% Pure Java
Koolaid or who are completely Java-phobic.

Joe


From: Mark Phippard

To say WAS Express is not production-ready is libelous. I did not see
the
post, perhaps this person had some legitimate bad experiences. That
does
not mean the product is not top notch. 




------------------------------

message: 6
date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 08:03:17 -0500
from: David Gibbs <david@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: Removing constraints

R Bruce Hoffman wrote: 
No matter. What I was getting at was is this a mixed DDS and SQL DDL
schema/library or completely SQL DDL schema?


In this case, it's an entirely SQL DDL schema.

And in the case of the completely SQL DDL schema... is it managed by a
tool or at least by a member/file of DDL statements?


The schema is managed by the application.

david


------------------------------

message: 7
date: 03 Apr 2005 09:27:59 -0400
from: R Bruce Hoffman <bruce.hoffman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: Removing constraints

On Sun, 2005-04-03 at 09:03, David Gibbs wrote: 
R Bruce Hoffman wrote:
> No matter. What I was getting at was is this a mixed DDS and SQL DDL
> schema/library or completely SQL DDL schema?

In this case, it's an entirely SQL DDL schema.


Ouch!

I'm sorry to be thick here... but now I'm really curious/concerned.

Ok, so after the restore, did/have you done a WRKPFCST? And are the
constraints completely missing or pending?

And maybe I missed this... did you restore to the same library name or a
different library name?

> And in the case of the completely SQL DDL schema... is it managed by a
> tool or at least by a member/file of DDL statements?

The schema is managed by the application.


Still not exactly sure what you mean by this. Do you mean that there is
some "install/update" program included with the application that
creates/modifies the schema? Or is there a separate file/member of DDL
statements that is maintained in the application but can still be
applied through, say, Client Access or RUNSQLSTM?



david 
--
"Bigamy is having one wife too many. Monogamy is the same."
-- Oscar Wilde



------------------------------

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