RE: webfacing and competing products

Is it time for ALL the product marketing to stop. Once this gets 
started it goes on and on!

> > From: trevor perry
> >
> > First, "screen scraping". Our friend Joe
> 
> Oh, it's going to be one of those days, I can see.  <sigh>
> 
> > slams products that are "screen scrapers" because they are not JSP.
> 
> Because they are not open.
> 
> > creen scraping does not refer any more to
> > reading a 5250 data stream, but it now includes any product that 
simply
> > recreates the 5250 data stream in a new Windows-type frame -
> > including HTML.
> 
> Trevor, thank you for trying to make us swallow your marketing bilge, 
but
> despite your efforts, screen scraping is just what it has always been:
> sitting on the 5250 data stream, just like newlook does.
> 
> 
> > If your product simply recreates the 24x80 (or 27x132)
> > experience, then you
> > have just "screen scraped". Joe's product may be technologically
> > intriguing,
> > but along with many of the competition, he is just taking what
> > you have, and
> > deploying the same stuff in a browser window. Screen scraping does 
not get
> > you far along the GUI road.
> 
> > If a vendor is calling
> > my application software a "pig", then I would be a little
> > concerned at their ability to understand the challenges I am
> > about to face.
> 
> I love listening to marketing doublespeak.  Is taking what you have 
and
> redploying it good or bad?  Let us know where you stand on that 
question
> someday, will you?
> 
> Anyway, PSC/400 is nothing like any other product out there, except 
perhaps
> WebFacing.  It is a radically different approach.  It is an OO Facade 
over
> the traditional server/client model.  The server/client model includes
> interfaces such as CCP NEP/MRT, CICS and 5250.
> 
> Do you realize that the largest asset these people have is their 
legacy
> programs and more importantly their legacy programmers?  They should 
be able
> to continue developing in COBOL or RPG and have one guy with industry
> standard JSP skills to pretty up the final product.  The product 
should then
> be available to anybody with a browser.  That's what PSC/400 does.
> 
> If you need a fat client, newlook is as good a choice as any, I 
suppose.
> But fat clients are rarely needed in the business world, which is why 
you
> don't see a fat-client eBay or a fat-client Yahoo or a fat-client 
Amazon, or
> Best Buy, or Circuit City, or Ameritrade or Ing or Citibank or...
> 
> Fat clients is in most cases the wrong UI choice.
> 
> 
> > You may have to learn JSP, you may have to learn Websphere, or
> > you may have
> > to learn newlook.
> 
> WebSphere is an IBM standard, JSP is a worldwide open standard, and 
newlook
> is proprietary.  Not really the same, Trevor.
> 
> 
> > The more you learn, the better the end result,
> 
> Except that with newlook, this doesn't translate except to more 
newlook.
> 
> 
> > And, if someone says they have a thin client, but you need
> > to install a Java Servlet or Applet - you just installed a fat
> > client.
> 
> As has been pointed out before, your lack of technical expertise in 
this
> area is really quite severe - servlets never reside on the the 
client.  The
> JSP Model II architecture uses pure industry standard HTML to 
communicate
> with browsers.
> 
> I think you may want to review your knowledge in this area.  You 
probably
> should understand at least the basics of the architecture before you 
offer
> any advice.  I can critique fat client designs because I've designed 
thin
> and thick client interfaces for over 20 years, and of course, I 
literally
> wrote the book on revitalization.  You say you understand how my 
software
> works, but all of the concepts (including a complete working example 
of all
> the software) are actually available publicly in my 
book, "eDeployment: The
> Fastest Path to the Web".
> 
> 
> > One P.S.
> > It is very apparent that Joe does not understand newlook, but has 
simply
> > read some marketing material. On the other hand, I do not fully 
understand
> > his software - my comments are made from reading his marketing
> > material and
> > his numerous sales pitches on these forums. I believe I have
> > represented his
> > software correctly.
> 
> I understand newlook fine.  It's a fat client with two deployment 
options.
> One is a screen scraper, the otehr uses client/server hooks.  The 
point is,
> nobody can use newlook out of the box to redeploy a 1500 screen system
> overnight without using the screen scraper component.
> 
> With PSC/400, you can.
> 
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> 

Dave Dunfield
Midwest Integrated Systems Resources
AS/400  and LANSA Expert
PO Box 1481
Portage, MI 49081
 
Phone-269-373-3049 Cell 269-501-5685