Re: AS/400

From: "Lou Forlini" <lforlini@sspi-software.com>
To: <MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com>
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: AS/400


>     By "everybody", I meant in traditional AS/400 shops.  But you
> bring up another point - in VB code is even more intertwined with the
> UI unless you make a specific effort to separate it.  How many do?

But that's the problem, you effectively said, "How many traditional AS/400
shops aren't traditional AS/400 shops?" as if that made your point.

There is a lot of VB development that seperates UI from business logic.
n-tier development isn't just something you can find in publications or
something Joe rattles on about. It really is being used by some people in
the world. Aside from n-tier development, there is the MVC development
paradigm where, to simplify development and maintenance, the Model, View,
and Controller are defined and developed seperately. This can allow for a
small one tier application to someday grow into an n-tier app without a lot
of pain.

See, if you actually use some of these "flavor of the month" technologies,
you don't have to heartache over problems like this one.

> >Why is it a losing proposition either way? If you "pay IBM's tax" did you
> >lose? If you change everything did you lose? You have options, all of
which
> >have a cost involved. Is that different than it has been in the past? Did
> >you ever have free options?
>
>     I'm not discussing free, just the alternatives to having the
> customer go to another platform.
>
>     I'm between the rock and a hard place.  To diligently show my
> customers the costs involved in an upgrade, I have to show them:
>
>     a) the cost of the interactive tax, contrasted with
>     b) the cost of altering existing, working apps to another method to
avoid a)
>
>     which they then compare with
>
>     c) a proposal from a firm that will replace everything with NT
>
>     and
>
>     d) a proposal from a firm that will replace everything with Unix/Linux
>
>     I can talk AS/400 advantages until I'm blue in the face, but the
> other guys can sing and dance, too.

Of course. This has always been the case. The difference being that before
the eServer marketing and the new pricing structure you did not have the
option of b). Now, that you have a new option, it seems like you are tending
to agree with the competition.

Well, let's look at the iSeries market. Suppose IBM did not market the
iSeries, and was still selling only the AS/400 as a green screen application
server. What do you suppose they'd have to price it at to support the R&D
etc. to keep it going? Do you feel it would be higher? Lower?

Believe me, I'd like to see iSeries boxes shipped for under $100, installed
free, maintained for the cost of AOL, and support every known technology.
But that isn't realistic and the fact that IBM doesn't sell that way doesn't
indicate a conspiracy to kill a marketplace.

>     Regards,
>
>     - Lou Forlini
>       Software Engineer
>       System Support Products, Inc.
Chris Rehm
javadisciple@earthlink.net
If you believe that the best technology wins the
marketplace, you haven't been paying attention.


+---
| This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
| To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
| To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
| To unsubscribe from this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
| Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator: david@midrange.com
+---