You didn't notice the <bg> "big grin" in the 3rd paragraph.  You did fine,
we agree.  I was having you on.  Sorry for not making it clear.

Richard Jackson
Richard Jackson and Associates Ltd.
IBM Business Partner
mailto:richardjackson@richardjackson.net
http://www.richardjacksonltd.com
Telephone: 1 (303) 808-8058


-|-----Original Message-----
-|From: owner-midrange-l@midrange.com
-|[mailto:owner-midrange-l@midrange.com]On Behalf Of alan shore
-|Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 1:11 PM
-|To: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
-|Subject: Re: RE: RE: programmer productivity.
-|
-|
-|If it seems that I am attacking, my apologies. That is NOT my
-|intention whatsoever (one word or 3?). Its just that this thread
-|has appearred at just the wrong (or should I say right) time.
-|My department has just gone through a change of CIO, and the
-|amount of paperwork involved in relaying productivity has changed
-|from one sheet once a month to 5 different sets of
-|papers/spreadsheets etc weekly and monthly. After I had finished
-|allocating my hours as to which departments I had completed work
-|for in the past month, I discovered that the final 4 DAYS (almost
-|40 hours) of October was nothing but paperwork/spreadsheets etc
-|showing how productive we had been for the month of October. I
-|had just been shaking my head on this fact, when I heard rumors
-|of collecting the number of lines of coding as a measurement.
-|Then this thread started.
-|So forgive me my rant. No attack was intended, just me blowing my
-|top, or parts of my body there of.
-|
-|>>> "Richard Jackson" <richardjackson@richardjackson.net> 11/10
-|11:39 AM >>>
-|Alan:
-|
-|I can find no end of documents to show that no other
-|productivity-measuring
-|system offers a substantial advantage over LOC.  Note, I am not
-|saying that
-|LOC is good only that nothing else is much better.
-|
-|One does not compare LOC across languages.  As you pointed out, that is a
-|silly idea.
-|
-|Since you have attacked LOC is such an "involved" way, would you like to
-|suggest a method that you believe will work better so that we may attack
-|you?
-|
-|<bg> (I'm not very committed to this discussion)
-|
-|Measuring productivity is a pretty silly idea too.  If you
-|believe that you
-|can measure productivity using a simple technique that is easy to
-|understand
-|then you also believe that programmers perform mechanical work
-|and that they
-|should be a commodity item.  Good luck filling programming positions.  If
-|you are willing to accept that the job is complex and technical then you
-|must also accept that the measurement technique will be complex
-|(subject to
-|interpretation) and you will not understand what the programmer is doing.
-|When you don't understand it, at least part of the time the measurements
-|will not make sense.
-|
-|The OP should monitor each fix through its lifetime.  Fixes move through
-|stages defined by a process model.  Status reporting identifies where each
-|work order is in the process.  Allow management to understand how
-|long each
-|stage should take and how long it actually did take.
-|
-|Richard Jackson
-|Richard Jackson and Associates Ltd.
-|IBM Business Partner
-|mailto:richardjackson@richardjackson.net
-|http://www.richardjacksonltd.com
-|Telephone: 1 (303) 808-8058
-|
-|
-|-|-----Original Message-----
-|-|From: owner-midrange-l@midrange.com
-|-|[mailto:owner-midrange-l@midrange.com]On Behalf Of alan shore
-|-|Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 10:15 AM
-|-|To: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
-|-|Subject: Re: RE: programmer productivity.
-|-|
-|-|
-|-|I hope I understand what you are writing here, otherwise I am
-|-|definitley showiwing what an idiot I am.
-|-|I completely disagree. Lines of Code is probably THE worst way of
-|-|charting someones performance. Granted RPG (as-of-now, anyway) is
-|-|of a fixed format. But what about free-format RPG, free-format
-|-|COBOL, free-format UNIX etc. etc.. One mans line of code becomes
-|-|another mans 4/5 lines of code. Does this mean that programmer B
-|-|is 4/5 times more productive than programmer A.
-|-|The responses of go back to the bean-counters and ask what they
-|-|use to measure their productivity has to be the best answer.
-|-|I am curious as to what reply was received. Plus, ask them why do
-|-|they want to measure a programmers productivity anyway.
-|-|
-|-|>>> "Richard Jackson" <richardjackson@richardjackson.net> 11/10
-|-|9:04 AM >>>
-|-|About 15 years ago, I spent a bunch of time looking at this
-|-|problem.  I also
-|-|did a presentation at Common about it.  At that time, no system of
-|-|measurement produced better fidelity than lines of code (LOC).  LOC is
-|-|flawed because its scope is narrow and its definition contains serious
-|-|flaws.  In order to heal the definition problem, one must
-|account for the
-|-|effect of complexity on LOC.
-|-|
-|-|Richard Jackson
-|-|Richard Jackson and Associates Ltd.
-|-|IBM Business Partner
-|-|mailto:richardjackson@richardjackson.net
-|-|http://www.richardjacksonltd.com
-|-|Telephone: 1 (303) 808-8058
-|-|
-|-|
-|-|-|-----Original Message-----
-|-|-|From: owner-midrange-l@midrange.com
-|-|-|[mailto:owner-midrange-l@midrange.com]On Behalf Of Gary R. Patterson
-|-|-|Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 2:36 AM
-|-|-|To: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
-|-|-|Subject: RE: programmer productivity.
-|-|-|
-|-|-|
-|-|-|Lots of ways to measure programmer productivity.  A few ideas:
-|-|-|
-|-|-|Developers: Lines of code vs. defects in produced code.
-|-|-|Developers: Performance to project timelines vs. defects.
-|-|-|Developers: Performance to task estimate vs. defects.  Really needs
-|-|-|standardized estimates.
-|-|-|Maintenance programmers:  Number of fixes (weighted for
-|complexity) vs.
-|-|-|defects in fixed code.
-|-|-|
-|-|-|Subjective measurements, too: Code review, standards
-|-|compliance, peer and
-|-|-|supervisor performance evaluation.
-|-|-|
-|-|-|Of course, you have to measure non-coding tasks, too.  Some
-|of the above
-|-|-|metrics apply.
-|-|-|
-|-|-|1) Start tracking defects, and charge them to the responsible
-|-|-|individual or
-|-|-|team.  (Have security walk you to the car for the first week or two.)
-|-|-|2) Implement detailed time reporting.  (Watch out for mail
-|that ticks.)
-|-|-|3) Implement code reviews (good idea anyway).  Standard
-|-|criteria, rotating
-|-|-|responsibility.  Check for standards compliance.  (This way you
-|-|-|can share a
-|-|-|little of the heat with your senior staff.)
-|-|-|4) Implement an estimating methodology.  (Big fun.  Nothing
-|-|like a rousing
-|-|-|afternoon of function-point counting.)
-|-|-|5) Start tracking performance to estimate and performance to timeline.
-|-|-|(Avoid food and beverages that are not prepared in your presence.)
-|-|-|
-|-|-|Enjoy.  Might actually even improve productivity and quality,
-|if you can
-|-|-|manage it effectively.
-|-|-|
-|-|-|Gary R. Patterson
-|-|-|
-|-|-|
-|-|-|
-|-|-|-----Original Message-----
-|-|-|From: owner-midrange-l@midrange.com
-|-|-|[mailto:owner-midrange-l@midrange.com]On Behalf Of midrange
-|-|-|Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 1:29 PM
-|-|-|To: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
-|-|-|Subject: Re: programmer productivity.
-|-|-|
-|-|-|
-|-|-|I have been ask by accountants to provide them with a way to
-|measure our
-|-|-|programmers productivity.
-|-|-|
-|-|-|
-|-|-|I know what I think is productive. fast accurate turnaround
-|on projects.
-|-|-|
-|-|-|does anyone one else have any comments.
-|-|-|
-|-|-|thank you jeff grace
-|-|-|
-|-|-|+---
-|-|-|| This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
-|-|-|| To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
-|-|-|| To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
-|-|-|| To unsubscribe from this list send email to
-|-|-|MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
-|-|-|| Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator:
-|-|-|david@midrange.com
-|-|-|+---
-|-|
-|-|+---
-|-|| This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
-|-|| To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
-|-|| To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
-|-|| To unsubscribe from this list send email to
-|-|MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
-|-|| Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator:
-|-|david@midrange.com
-|-|+---
-|-|+---
-|-|| This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
-|-|| To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
-|-|| To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
-|-|| To unsubscribe from this list send email to
-|-|MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
-|-|| Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator:
-|-|david@midrange.com
-|-|+---
-|
-|+---
-|| This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
-|| To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
-|| To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
-|| To unsubscribe from this list send email to
-|MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
-|| Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator:
-|david@midrange.com
-|+---
-|+---
-|| This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
-|| To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
-|| To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
-|| To unsubscribe from this list send email to
-|MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
-|| Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator:
-|david@midrange.com
-|+---

+---
| This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
| To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
| To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
| To unsubscribe from this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
| Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator: david@midrange.com
+---

This thread ...

Replies:

Follow On AppleNews
Return to Archive home page | Return to MIDRANGE.COM home page

This mailing list archive is Copyright 1997-2019 by midrange.com and David Gibbs as a compilation work. Use of the archive is restricted to research of a business or technical nature. Any other uses are prohibited. Full details are available on our policy page. If you have questions about this, please contact [javascript protected email address].