Re[2]: How can Java eat up 160meg of memory?

     Pardon for the late response (too much going on to keep up with the 
     rest of the list), but I can't pass making one (or two) comment(s)....
     
     Bash Java.... You do a pretty thorough job of making this Java's 
     fault, but it just doesn't sound right to me. I'll admit that the JAVA 
     proponents will tell you it'll butter your bread for you, and hype the 
     hell out of it till you can't stand to listen to any more, but get 
     real. Java is a very reasonable solution to many programming needs. 
     
     So you got stuck with a bloated, unsatisfying program. You can't tell 
     me that the same crap couldn't have been written in another language 
     environment. Is every RPG program you've seen been great? Or even 
     good? Bad code lives in every environment, not just JAVA. 
     
     OPINION: The argument that MS JVM could be your problem is VERY 
     viable. As I understand it, the standard garbage collection routine in 
     JAVA is an exclusive process, and when invoked, your program will just 
     freeze until the garbage collection is completed. This translates to 
     very noticable performance issues that cannot really be resolved, 
     unless the JVM uses an alternative method of cleaning up the 
     environment. The JVM on the AS400 uses a very clever alternative that 
     minimizes the impact of garbage collection. I believe other vendors 
     may also have other variations. Memory leaks would seem to be a 
     problem in the implementation of a JVM, and as such, M$ and their 
     products may be the main culprit in your problem. 
     
     QUESTION: As this is the MIDRANGE-L, I'd assume that you COULD try 
     this app on an AS400. You state very firmly that you've got no 
     alternatives to the NT box, so why are you complaining here? Wouldn't 
     a M$NTJVM newsgroup be a better place to whine about this?
     
     eric.delong@pmsi-services.com


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RE: How can Java eat up 160meg of memory? 
Author:  <MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com> at INET_WACO
Date:    2/28/00 5:41 PM


> 
> Maybe you should try running it on a machine that has a Real Java VM, 
> instead of MicroSoft's bolluxed-up version?  (My opinion.., see Sun's 
> lawsuit against MS for further details..)
> 
> JLM
> 
     
Let me get this straight.  I have an NT box.  This is were my data resides 
(not by choice).  Someone writes an app that I need.  It's in Java.  Now I 
should get a new machine?  Why wouldn't the vendor provide a VM for their 
product?  Maybe this one did?  I don't know and I don't care.
     
--Rant mode on--
Shouldn't the vendor warn me it's gonna be a pig to run because of the VM 
used?  Why do they advertise it's in Java then, so you know it will be slow 
and you should expect to have to reboot every few days even with 160meg of 
memory? 
     
Sounds like Java isn't so great.  I don't care if M$'s VM is bloated, if 
Java is so great, it should work without these problems.  Auto clean up my 
*ss.
     
So who's fault is it?  The java hypers?  M$?  The Vendor for not warning me 
response would be not so great?  Sun for even putting the darn language out 
there?  Me for using NT without any other choice? IT Managers/Marketers for 
developing their software in Java just because of the hype so they can sell 
more?
     
Enough of the excuses for why Java isn't as hot as they say.  Call it what 
it is.  Nothing special.  It will take a lot to prove to me otherwise.  And 
you know what, if it wasn't so hyped, I probably wouldn't be so hard on the 
poor language.   But I have yet to see a java app put it's coffee where it's 
beans are.
--Rant mode off--
     
Brad
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