RE: IBM certification, especially RPG -- MIDRANGE-L

I myself was an AS/400 operator for five years, before get my "break"
and becoming an RPG programmer. But I had been a hobby programmer for
years before that, so I didn't have to learn the ropes from scratch
anyway!

I have no degree, but started as an OP straight from school. If only
more companies would realise that yes, degree is  a good sign of
education, but it does not mean that everybody without a degree cannot
be a programmer. 

I've worked with many people in IT who have non computing degrees, and
got jobs in programming, and said that they didn't really understand
what they were doing for the first few years, but just bumbled there way
through.
I'm sure we've all worked with some of these people.

-----Original Message-----
From: Joel Fritz [mailto:JFritz@sharperimage.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 1999 7:32 PM
To: 'MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com'
Subject: RE: IBM certification, especially RPG


I think we agree more than you realize.  I think it's hard to develop a
test
that measures the abilities and knowledge necessary for success in
programming (or substitute other occupation of your choice.)  If I
needed
certification to get a job, I'd probably do what was necessary to pass
the
test, but the anarchist in me would begrudge it every step of the way.  

Perhaps because I work in a shop where it's kind of a tradition to train
totally inexperienced people for entry level programming positions, I'm
not
sure that possession of the *required* degrees etc. is a reasonable
requirement.  I've seen operators and people whose only previous
programming
experience was high school classes and/or hobby programming do very well
as
programmers once they were given the chance.  When we interview for P/A
or
higher positions, we generally ask for a certain number of years of
experience, but not much else.  Experience is no guarantee of
competence,
either, but that's another story. 

-----Original Message-----
From: R. Bruce Hoffman, Jr. [mailto:rbruceh@ibm.net]
Sent: Saturday, May 08, 1999 7:12 AM
To: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
Subject: Re: IBM certification, especially RPG


Joel Fritz wrote:
> 
> The delivery truck driver at a place I used to work was something of a
> philosopher.  One of his printable sayings was "School don't make you
> smart."

No, school don't.  But paying attention in school does.  Applying
yourself in school does.  And finally, when you PASS THE TEST, others
are assured that you have at least some base level of competence and
ability to think at a certain level, be that High School, College or
Post Graduate.

Just having the cert does not prove that you can do the job.  We still
interview people with the *required* college degrees don't we?  There is
more to putting the right person in the job than *just* a piece of
paper, but we want the paper as a basis, don't we?

-- 
===========================================================
R. Bruce Hoffman, Jr. -- IBM Certified AS/400 Administrator

-- The sum of all human knowledge is a fixed constant.
    It's the population that keeps growing!
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