Re: CODE/400 -- MIDRANGE-L

Chris,

Well, I figured I'd manage to "rile you up" eventually ;-).

In a message dated 98-03-03 13:06:26 EST, you write:

> > I disagree.  I think that most posts have just reflected the management
brick
>  > walls that most run up against when trying to get new tools.  You've got
to
>  > admit, the "per seat" charge is pretty steep for CODE/400 -- especially
when
>  > you consider that many (most?) companies violate their license agreements
for
>  > VB and other similar languages by "plopping them in" wherever they feel
like
>  > it.  Developers have to "choose their battles" carefully, and many need a
>  > hardware upgrade worse than they need a new development tool.
>  
>  Dean, I disagree. The per seat charge for Code/400 is comparable with any
>  other software development suite with similar capability. Code/400 is a
>  development environment, not just an editor. 
>  
>  If a company wants VisualBasic, or VisualAge for Basic, or VisualAge for
>  Java, then those suites are in the <$100 range. Code/400 not only provides
>  extensive tools, but also addresses a smaller market segment. Look at the
>  list of components in Code/400, compare it to other items on the market.
>  Take into consideration the Code/400 market. I don't see how Code/400 could
>  be a profitable item for IBM as it stands, with the small amount of market
>  adoption for the product, yet it see regular updates and is a top notch
>  product. 

Ah, but within "similar capability" lies "the rub".  Most companies that have
bothered to invest in true C/S tools have done so with either VB, VC++, or
VJAVA.  They get the language, an editor, and an interactive debugger in your
stated price range.  What do CODE/400 users get for $800US more?  "Smaller
market segment" is hardly a selling point, and _exactly_ what the others on
the list have been protesting.

>  If companies are going to steal software, whether that be Visual Basic or
>  Code/400, then they are going to do that. If IBM drops the price on
>  Code/400, it will simply mean that these companies are stealing a cheaper
>  product.

Exactly.  They can steal VB for $100US a pop, or CODE for around $900US/pop.
Duhhh, which product would _you_ steal under the same circumstances?  Even
stolen copies would mean more people using CODE, thus increasing the
likelihood that the thieves would recommend it to a new employer.  Micro$oft
publicly decries the theft of its software by overseas users, yet what they're
_REALLY_ upset with is the fact that the pirates deliver the upgrades to the
stolen software faster than _THEY_ can.

>  [snip]
>  
>  > But, with the exception of the proprietary CASE tools (none of which
provides
>  > adequate "Upper CASE" support) that the major manufacturing software 
>  > suppliers
>  > have forced their customers into using, most Fortune/1000 companies with
>  > /400's do not utilize _ANY_ GUI development tool.  At least one of those
>  > suppliers (ahem) still doesn't provide its newest tool to their
customers.
>  
>  That's true, most AS/400 shops do not adopt anything new. There are a host
>  of reasons for this. I don't think that reducing the ticket price of
>  Code/400 will make much of a difference. Those buying Code/400 are likely
>  to finance the software purchase over a three to five year period and will
>  see the return faster than the investment. 
>  
>  The trick is to get AS/400 shops to actually be willing to admit they might
>  not be perfect already. They are just darn near perfect, and need to touch
>  up a couple rough edges. 

Again, I disagree.  If I weren't shackled to the AS/Set CASE tool by SSA's
BPCS product, I'd buy CODE/400 in a nano-(perhaps ohno?) second.  Most AS/400
shops that actually _have_ a development staff _WANT_ to do something new.
Unfortunately, their peers (met at LUGs) are using VB or PowerBuilder -- _NOT_
CODE/400.

If you are fortunate enough to work at a shop that works with major packages,
you are (in part) saddled with:

A.  AS/Set CASE tool -- SSA's BPCS.
B.  Synon CASE tool -- MAPICS and others.
C.  WorldVision CASE tool -- JD Edwards.

I'm sure that there are others (couldn't remember the package that specified
Lansa's CASE tool).  In these instances you _CANNOT_ use an editor other than
the one provided by the CASE tool.  Also, there is no (desirable) way to
"reverse-engineer" your tool-generated code into CODE/400, unless you plan on
never taking another vendor-supplied upgrade.

>  > My thought _EXACTLY_!  I'm not familiar enough with the product to say
what
>  > should and should not be included, but take a page from NetScape -- the
base
>  > product is free, but you have to pay to get the "Gold" or "Enterprise"
>  > editions.  Perhaps even add a "Would you like to install the base version
of
>  > our CODE/400 development tool?" prompt (with appropriate help text
available)
>  > to the CA/400 install?  Maybe a 30 day free trial on the "Extended
Edition"
>  > (whoops, probably a bad choice of words ;-)!).  Sounds like a winner to
me!
>  
>  Maybe there should be a CA, and a CA/Developer. When installing the
>  CA/Developer either a basic or full version of Code/400 could be installed.
>  The basic version of Code/400 could include the LPEX editor and debugger.
>  The screen/report designer should be additional, because it is in enough
>  demand that if people knew there was a really great solution out there for
>  layout they might license.

Righto, mate!

>  I would like to see this, obviously with the edges smoothed a bit. I think
>  that IBM should take full advantage of the expiration of the consent
>  decree, since the market has evolved since it's advent. 

Yes, indeed.

JMHO,

Dean Asmussen
Enterprise Systems Consulting, Inc.
Fuquay-Varina, NC  USA
E-Mail:  DAsmussen@aol.com

"Experience is the one thing you have plenty of when you're too old to get the
job." -- Anonymous
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