Re: IBM Spin Doctors on AS/400 Marketing -- MIDRANGE-L






<snip>

>Dean, it seems that you are out of touch with reality. Do you suppose that
>the half a million AS/400 sales occured because that's "what they heard"?
>I have been in management making those management decisions, have you? I
>would hope so, with eighteen years experience. So, did YOU make your
>decisions based on what you heard recently? No? But everyone except you is
>an idiot?
>Wake up, Dean.
Easy, easy now.  I don't think anyone of us is saying all management
decisions are based on 'what you heard recently'.  I believe, as I think
others do, that it occurs fairly often and way too much.  Now, given that
a 'half a million AS/400 sales' has occured - could it have been much
more?, is that proof of succesful marketing?, does it help moving forward?

>I read, "IBM needs to advertise more to counter Microsoft." I say,  "I
>don't think that advertising is the answer." Response is: "Microsoft has
>turned the crowd with smiley faced NT ads." I say, "I haven't seen these
>ads, can you tell me about them?" Response, "Chris, Chris, Chris, it
>doesn't matter that they don't really exist, it is the perception that
>they do that is important."
>And...
>
>"Management is stupid so IBM needs to counter the non-existant Microsoft
>ads with ads that will convince management that AS/400s are hip and cool.
>The proof that this is necessary is the bunch of anecdotes we can recite
>about stupid mistakes."
>
>No substance, nothing. If I didn't know better, I'd say you were a pointy
<haired boss. Isn't that what you would say about someone who made such a
>judgement based on anecdotes they read on the internet?
The ads are there for Microsoft.  While they don't necessarily advertise NT
they don't need to (which I'm sure is one of your points).  Go check the
advertisers index and look under Microsoft.......

There are probably many factors as to the perceived value of NT -
advertising,
 trade press, PC trade press, any person that owns a PC (although I would
think people would wake up from that experience), any person that thinks
they
can run NT, Novell administrators worried about the jobs, stupid management
(kind of redundant isn't it), etc.  Most of us have just highlighted some
areas
we think that would help shift that perception - I don't think anyone has
said this
is the ultimate answer.

My attitude towards management is probably a little bit more cynical than
yours -
but I think you give 'management' a lot more credit than they deserve.

There is substance to what Dean is saying, IMHO, and no he isn't the pointy
haired boss.  I believe that moniker belongs to someone else....

>Here's a harsh reality for you, Dean: 100% up time with no applications
>isn't worth as much to upper management as 50% up time with one
>application.
>
>10,000 applications they don't want < 1 they do.

Speaking of no substance.  What point are you trying to make here?
No applications?  I've heard of using extremes to prove a point but this
seems a tad bit out of reach.

10,000 vs 1?  And you're trying to say management is smart?

Reality - 25,000+ AS/400 application, 3,000 C/S AS/400 applications.
How many NT applications?  2,000?  I just did a product search for
an AS/400 warehouse management system - I stopped at 50.
All kinds too - green screen, C/S, java, etc.

Now, hopefully these numbers will continue to increase because survival
will be impacted.  I think we are agreed on this.

But what software development firm wouldn't consider writing their code or
porting it to the AS/400?  Maybe these development firms aren't too
smart either.
<snip>

>More anecdote crap which supports nothing. Sorry you had trouble holding a
>real job. Unix never had much of a foothold in the gaming industry in Las
>Vegas. It never bothered me.
>By the way, perhaps the reason you had trouble with management is your
>failing to understand what your job is. Riding along on IBM's platform is
>fun, but it is your job to explore the cost/benefit of other platforms and
>explore alternatives. Rather than bitch that you were forced to show that
>to upper management, you should consider the fact that only really stupid
>managers would not bother to explore alternatives.
Well, well.

No one has ever indicated that alternatives should not be explored.
Competition is good, assuming it's based on a rational thought process and
not the in-flight magazine syndrome or some similar malady.

>Dean, I think this really indicates where you completely miss the point.
>As has been pointed out (not by me) NT is NOT being advertised. As has
>been pointed out (by me), NT makes headlines in the trades all the time.
>How? With a zillion articles on applications. My argument is that IBM
>needs to get applications that will make trade press in the same way.
>Yours is that IBM should pay for glossy ads.
Articles are the form of advertising most noticeable - not the only.
Zillion articles
on NT applications?  That means about 1 billion articles per existing NT
application doesn't it?

>NT has a LOT of new, feature rich applications. Data warehousing, credit
>management systems, accounting, groupware, etc., etc. Name one I would
>buy? READ MY GODDAMN TAG, DEAN. I wouldn't buy them. That doesn't mean I
>am so dense I won't admit they are there. In a few years, I will be buying
>NT apps, because NT will reach the stability of the AS/400 and there won't
>be any new AS/400 apps UNLESS IBM DOES SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

A lot?  What's a lot?  No new AS/400 apps?  Peoplesoft, SAP, Notes,
Accountmate?

Why does IBM have to do something about new applications?  Maybe we have
stupid management at the software development houses?  Let's see, do I
write
apps for the most overhyped OS that lacks stability, integration,
scalability, and is
expensive for customers to operate or should we write to the most under
hyped
OS that has stability, integration, scalabillity?   Oh it's no big deal,
the overhyped
will get all those things in the future.  Besides, who said following the
lemmings
was bad?

 Who's stupid here?

I would have to say that you and I can agree to disagree on this subject
:-)
At this point I think I will refrain from responding in the future so as to
avoid
the infinite response syndrome and prove that I don't have to have the last
word
as my wife thinks.  And potentially a nasty note from David.  I have
enjoyed the
iscussion.





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