RE: VRPG And/Or Java

        BobCozzi @ ibm.net
08-27-97 06:08 AM
To:     MIDRANGE-L @ midrange.com
cc:      
Subject:        RE: VRPG And/Or Java


*** I accidentally sent the following direct to Bob instead of the list.
When I got a reply from him, I noticed my error. I thought I would send it
here to avoid confusion on the follow ups. ***



>2. Put full graphical user interface support in RPG and DDS for PC 
>connected workstations or the newer NetPC things.  Allow me to code for 
>such things in DDS (or something else) and RPG.

This might be counter productive for IBM. After all, IBM does seem to feel
that Java is the future of the AS/400. I think there are a lot of reasons
why this is true. That being the case, IBM might want to see things move
to Java as quickly as possible.

In that light, spending extra effort to put things in RPG that are already
in Java would seem to be spending money on keeping people from moving
where you want them to go. 

While bytecode generating ILE compilers should be very handy (and I would
thing relatively easy to produce by simply treating the byte codes as a
processor op code set) they only address part of the issue. Java bytecodes
are what allows for the process to be platform independant, so the RPG
apps become independant.

But Java is also faster to code in. Object oriented languages are faster
to program in and easier to maintain. Also, there is so much broader
support for Java that Java programmers will become easier to find than RPG
programmers are. Third party applications are allowing for Java add ons or
plug ins. This means that a Java based AS/400 shop could broaden it's
influence because the same coders that put the applications on the AS/400
could be writing the front end plug in parts to go into documents or web
pages or whatever.

What I am saying is that what I see is that IBM can either try to keep RPG
up with Java by establishing two development efforts, or they can simply
throw their weight behind Java. Since Java won't be GA for six months, I
suspect it will be a year or so before we see visible signs that RPG is
falling behind, but how many new projects can we expect IBM to be
launching in the mean time?

>I mean, it is 1997 isn't it? While text-mode application do have their 
>merits, they are NOT the only applications in the world.

I think IBM has been trying to tell us that very loudly. VA C++, VA
Smalltalk, VA Java, CA toolkit, etc. IBM has been trying for years to get
us to adopt a solution that allows for GUIs on the 400 and we have been
dense. Toronto gives in by trying to stuff more features into RPG, and
when you step back and take a look you realize that RPG is evolving into
C. 

But the problem is that the solutions we have rejected on the AS/400 have
been widely accepted elsewhere. As a result, the AS/400 loses ground. Now
we are at a make or break point. If the AS/400 programmer cannot finish a
project because he cannot produce the front end required, then the AS/400
will lose sales to technologies that DO go end to end. 

Bob, in a way you are acting like the IBM of a few years ago. The market,
and the world, are changing around you. You are still demanding to do it
your way with the same tools you have always had. 

Wouldn't it be nicer if you could pick and choose the tools you wanted
from any of a number of vendors instead of always going back to the same
vendor and complaining that they need to add the things that all other
market segments get? 

>Bob Cozzi



Chris Rehm
Mr.AS400@ibm.net
You have to ask yourself, "How often can I afford to be unexpectedly out of 
business?" 
Get an AS/400.
+---
| This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
| To submit a new message, send your mail to "MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com".
| To unsubscribe from this list send email to MAJORDOMO@midrange.com
|    and specify 'unsubscribe MIDRANGE-L' in the body of your message.
| Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator: david@midrange.com
+---