Important clarification. There is a huge difference between source code access and user exits. User exits are available to all customers as before, licensing is not required. Our preferred method for all green screen modification is user exits, which are rampant throughout the system.
Source code is the entire collection of RPG programs - that is the component that requires a license. All of these discussions are about source code licensing.
Best Regards,
Ross Freeman | Senior Product Manager | Infor | office: 678.319.8040 | mobile: 404.386.5684 | ross.freeman@xxxxxxxxx
Infor ERP XA
InforFLEX-A clear, fast, and cost effective path to adopt Infor's latest product innovations.
http://www.infor.com/flex
-----Original Message-----
From: mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of mapics-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 12:30 PM
To: mapics-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: MAPICS-L Digest, Vol 7, Issue 150
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Source code costs (Josh Diggs)
2. Re: Source code costs (Willie J. Moore)
3. Re: Source code costs (Otto Meyn)
4. Re: Source code costs (Sansi, Jim)
5. Re: Source code costs (Kevin Fox)
6. Re: Source code costs (Kevin Mann)
7. Registered User Licensing at XAR5.5 or below (Burns, Bryan)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
message: 1
date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 07:32:53 -0700 (PDT)
from: Josh Diggs <JDiggs@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: [MAPICS-L] Source code costs
I'm sorry, but this whole source code kerfuffle sounds like a tempest in a teapot. First, let's talk about personal responsibility. If your business is inextricably dependant on continued access to source code then you need to make sure that you have a valid contract stating that you have the access to said source. If you've taken that necessary step, then you can handle the situation with support, then escalate to management, then to the court system. Only at the last step is it really appropriate to publicly "bash" Inform. I've seen Inform personnel respond in a calm professional manner to this thread with what seem like entirely appropriate information.
Additionally Ross's last post made it clear that the original poster has reasonably affordable access to source for at least long enough to get themselves out of the mess they are in. That sounds to me like Inform was very intentionally trying to bend their new source code policy to mitigate "the impact on the existing customer base".
One of my high school teachers used to say "a failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part".
All of that being said, I think that charging so damn much for source is a poor strategic choice, but that is Infar's decision to make. I think it is important to differentiate between what I see as Inform trying to shore up their revenue stream in order to continue this product line versus milking the remaining install base for a maximum of licensing fees before they kill off a dying product. If I thought that Infor was trying to "shaft" its' customers on the way out the door, I would be up in arms too, but I don't think that's what is happening.
------------------------------
message: 2
date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 07:44:23 -0700 (PDT)
from: "Willie J. Moore" <WJMoore@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: [MAPICS-L] Source code costs
One post would have been enough.
William Moore
California Fine Wire, Co
wjmoore@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
805-489-5144
-----Original Message-----
From: mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Josh Diggs
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 7:33 AM
To: mapics-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [MAPICS-L] Source code costs
I'm sorry, but this whole source code kerfuffle sounds like a tempest in a teapot to me. First, let's talk about personal responsibility. If your business is inextricably dependant on continued access to source code then you need to make sure that you have a valid contract stating that you have the access to said source. If you've taken that necessary step, then you can handle the situation with support, then escalate to management, then to the court system. Only at the last step (maybe the last two) is it really appropriate to publicly "bash" Infor. I've seen Infor personnel respond in a calm professional manner to this thread with what seem like entirely appropriate information.
Additionally Ross's last post made it clear that the original poster has reasonably affordable access to source for at least long enough to get themselves out of the mess they are in. That sounds to me like Infor was very intentionally trying to bend their new source code policy to mitigate "the impact on the existing customer base".
One of my high school teachers used to say "a failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part".
All of that being said, I think that charging so damn much for source is a poor strategic choice, but that is Infor's decision to make. I think it is important to differentiate between what I see as Infor trying to shore up their revenue stream in order to continue this product line versus milking the remaining install base for a maximum of licensing fees before they kill off a dying product. If I thought that Infor was trying to "shaft" its' customers on the way out the door, I would be up in arms too, but I don't think that's what is happening. I sure hope I'm right.
_______________________________________________
This is the MAPICS ERP System Discussion (MAPICS-L) mailing list To post a message email: MAPICS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
visit:
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------------------------------
message: 3
date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 11:08:04 -0400
from: "Otto Meyn" <meyno@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: [MAPICS-L] Source code costs
I do not want the source code, have you really tried to read it. But
Access to ALL Exit program source code should be allowed for anyone. I
hope this has not been changed.
-----Original Message-----
From: mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Willie J. Moore
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:44 AM
To: mapics-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [MAPICS-L] Source code costs
One post would have been enough.
William Moore
California Fine Wire, Co
wjmoore@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
805-489-5144
-----Original Message-----
From: mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Josh Diggs
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 7:33 AM
To: mapics-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [MAPICS-L] Source code costs
I'm sorry, but this whole source code kerfuffle sounds like a tempest in
a teapot to me. First, let's talk about personal responsibility. If
your business is inextricably dependant on continued access to source
code then you need to make sure that you have a valid contract stating
that you have the access to said source. If you've taken that necessary
step, then you can handle the situation with support, then escalate to
management, then to the court system. Only at the last step (maybe the
last two) is it really appropriate to publicly "bash" Infor. I've seen
Infor personnel respond in a calm professional manner to this thread
with what seem like entirely appropriate information.
Additionally Ross's last post made it clear that the original poster has
reasonably affordable access to source for at least long enough to get
themselves out of the mess they are in. That sounds to me like Infor
was very intentionally trying to bend their new source code policy to
mitigate "the impact on the existing customer base".
One of my high school teachers used to say "a failure to plan on your
part does not constitute an emergency on my part".
All of that being said, I think that charging so damn much for source is
a poor strategic choice, but that is Infor's decision to make. I think
it is important to differentiate between what I see as Infor trying to
shore up their revenue stream in order to continue this product line
versus milking the remaining install base for a maximum of licensing
fees before they kill off a dying product. If I thought that Infor was
trying to "shaft" its' customers on the way out the door, I would be up
in arms too, but I don't think that's what is happening. I sure hope
I'm right.
_______________________________________________
This is the MAPICS ERP System Discussion (MAPICS-L) mailing list To post
a message email: MAPICS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or
change list options,
visit:
http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/mapics-l
or email: MAPICS-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at
http://archive.midrange.com/mapics-l.
_______________________________________________
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To post a message email: MAPICS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
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at
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------------------------------
message: 4
date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 08:24:15 -0700
from: "Sansi, Jim" <jsansi@xxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: [MAPICS-L] Source code costs
Otto--- As was pointed out to me since I ran into the same issue... Look
in your AMXLIBy srcpf UMBSRC
I have to agree with modifying stock code, has anyone actually looked at
Synon generated code? It is enough to give you a massive headache. :-)
-J
-----Original Message-----
From: mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Otto Meyn
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 8:08 AM
To: MAPICS ERP System Discussion
Subject: Re: [MAPICS-L] Source code costs
I do not want the source code, have you really tried to read it. But
Access to ALL Exit program source code should be allowed for anyone. I
hope this has not been changed.
-----Original Message-----
From: mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Willie J. Moore
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:44 AM
To: mapics-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [MAPICS-L] Source code costs
One post would have been enough.
William Moore
California Fine Wire, Co
wjmoore@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
805-489-5144
-----Original Message-----
From: mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Josh Diggs
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 7:33 AM
To: mapics-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [MAPICS-L] Source code costs
I'm sorry, but this whole source code kerfuffle sounds like a tempest in
a teapot to me. First, let's talk about personal responsibility. If
your business is inextricably dependant on continued access to source
code then you need to make sure that you have a valid contract stating
that you have the access to said source. If you've taken that necessary
step, then you can handle the situation with support, then escalate to
management, then to the court system. Only at the last step (maybe the
last two) is it really appropriate to publicly "bash" Infor. I've seen
Infor personnel respond in a calm professional manner to this thread
with what seem like entirely appropriate information.
Additionally Ross's last post made it clear that the original poster has
reasonably affordable access to source for at least long enough to get
themselves out of the mess they are in. That sounds to me like Infor
was very intentionally trying to bend their new source code policy to
mitigate "the impact on the existing customer base".
One of my high school teachers used to say "a failure to plan on your
part does not constitute an emergency on my part".
All of that being said, I think that charging so damn much for source is
a poor strategic choice, but that is Infor's decision to make. I think
it is important to differentiate between what I see as Infor trying to
shore up their revenue stream in order to continue this product line
versus milking the remaining install base for a maximum of licensing
fees before they kill off a dying product. If I thought that Infor was
trying to "shaft" its' customers on the way out the door, I would be up
in arms too, but I don't think that's what is happening. I sure hope
I'm right.
_______________________________________________
This is the MAPICS ERP System Discussion (MAPICS-L) mailing list To post
a message email: MAPICS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or
change list options,
visit:
http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/mapics-l
or email: MAPICS-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at
http://archive.midrange.com/mapics-l.
_______________________________________________
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To post a message email: MAPICS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
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Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
at
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_______________________________________________
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To post a message email: MAPICS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
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------------------------------
message: 5
date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 08:39:48 -0700
from: "Kevin Fox" <kdfox@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: [MAPICS-L] Source code costs
Are we talking about modifying code or using the user exits? The shell code
for the users exits is included with the product and does not require source
code license to use. That is the whole point. With the user exits and now
enterprise integrator you should not require source code.
k
-----Original Message-----
From: mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Sansi, Jim
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 8:24 AM
To: MAPICS ERP System Discussion
Subject: Re: [MAPICS-L] Source code costs
Otto--- As was pointed out to me since I ran into the same issue... Look
in your AMXLIBy srcpf UMBSRC
I have to agree with modifying stock code, has anyone actually looked at
Synon generated code? It is enough to give you a massive headache. :-)
-J
-----Original Message-----
From: mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Otto Meyn
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 8:08 AM
To: MAPICS ERP System Discussion
Subject: Re: [MAPICS-L] Source code costs
I do not want the source code, have you really tried to read it. But
Access to ALL Exit program source code should be allowed for anyone. I
hope this has not been changed.
-----Original Message-----
From: mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Willie J. Moore
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:44 AM
To: mapics-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [MAPICS-L] Source code costs
One post would have been enough.
William Moore
California Fine Wire, Co
wjmoore@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
805-489-5144
-----Original Message-----
From: mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:mapics-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Josh Diggs
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 7:33 AM
To: mapics-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [MAPICS-L] Source code costs
I'm sorry, but this whole source code kerfuffle sounds like a tempest in
a teapot to me. First, let's talk about personal responsibility. If
your business is inextricably dependant on continued access to source
code then you need to make sure that you have a valid contract stating
that you have the access to said source. If you've taken that necessary
step, then you can handle the situation with support, then escalate to
management, then to the court system. Only at the last step (maybe the
last two) is it really appropriate to publicly "bash" Infor. I've seen
Infor personnel respond in a calm professional manner to this thread
with what seem like entirely appropriate information.
Additionally Ross's last post made it clear that the original poster has
reasonably affordable access to source for at least long enough to get
themselves out of the mess they are in. That sounds to me like Infor
was very intentionally trying to bend their new source code policy to
mitigate "the impact on the existing customer base".
One of my high school teachers used to say "a failure to plan on your
part does not constitute an emergency on my part".
All of that being said, I think that charging so damn much for source is
a poor strategic choice, but that is Infor's decision to make. I think
it is important to differentiate between what I see as Infor trying to
shore up their revenue stream in order to continue this product line
versus milking the remaining install base for a maximum of licensing
fees before they kill off a dying product. If I thought that Infor was
trying to "shaft" its' customers on the way out the door, I would be up
in arms too, but I don't think that's what is happening. I sure hope
I'm right.
_______________________________________________
This is the MAPICS ERP System Discussion (MAPICS-L) mailing list To post
a message email: MAPICS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or
change list options,
visit:
http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/mapics-l
or email: MAPICS-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at
http://archive.midrange.com/mapics-l.
_______________________________________________
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To post a message email: MAPICS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
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Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
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_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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To post a message email: MAPICS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
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Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
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------------------------------
message: 6
date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 11:19:15 -0500
from: "Kevin Mann" <KevinMann@xxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: [MAPICS-L] Source code costs
A rebuttal to Ross's comments;
As the originator of this post, I would like to again clarify a few
points. When I started using Mapics (Mapics II) the source code was
delivered free with your purchase of Mapics. I remember working for
other companies in the 90s when either Marcam or Mapics started charging
for source code. This was supposed to be a one time charge for source
code never to be charged again. The companies that I worked for during
that time had to purchase source code. Research, at my current company
shows that they purchased source code for Mapics XA in 1997. Source code
was provided for XA release 4 in 2004 and again after I arrived here in
2005 for release 7. There are people at Infor that have acknowledged to
me that we do indeed have the rights to the source code. In Ross's first
post he said that if you paid for it you should have it. I don't know
when the ALF for source came about, but I can not find anyone in my area
that had heard of it, including affiliates and former affiliates. We
were using a local affiliate in 2005 and 2006 while converting to
release 7. There was no mention of and no knowledge of ALF's at that
time.
I have no desire to modify more XA source code. I am only looking to
maintain what we are currently using, which unfortunately, is heavily
modified in some applications. In this instance I was looking for the
source code for an inventory tag print file to see if I could get it to
print on a laser printer. Source is also needed before I can apply a PTF
against a previously modified program. I can understand Infor being more
protective of their source code, but they must recognize the predicament
that they are putting long time customers like us in, if we can't apply
PTF's anymore.
As to Josh's comments;
This incident started with my starting inquiring to support when I could
not find the source code download. This was escalated to the point we
are at now which is talking with Infor management. The lawsuit that you
mention would be a last resort which I would hope doesn't happen. I made
my original post here only to notify others in my position that may have
been unaware of this change.
Note: I have had a conversation with someone in management with Infor's
support team this morning. This person is researching our situation and
will hopefully get back to me with some positive news.
Thanks,
Kevin
------------------------------
message: 7
date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 11:26:12 -0500
from: "Burns, Bryan" <Bryan_Burns@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: [MAPICS-L] Registered User Licensing at XAR5.5 or below
I'd like to talk to someone off-list if they're licensed for registered users and are running XAR5.5 or below.
Bryan Burns
iSeries Specialist
ECHO, Incorporated
Lake Zurich, Illinois
------------------------------
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End of MAPICS-L Digest, Vol 7, Issue 150
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