RE: MODERATOR ALERT

["Joe Pluta" <joepluta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

<MODERATOR MODE>

And just in case I wasn't 100% clear: the fact that *I* don't think Java
is good for programming business logic in no way makes that sentiment
somehow the "official position" of JAVA400-L.

For example, I personally loathe commitment control, but there have been
some darned good arguments made in favor of it in the last couple of
days.  I have to admit that I can see situations where my position might
possibly be somewhat less than optimal (weasel words to say that I'm
wrong <smirk>).  And I don't mind, because the people who like
commitment control were also listening to what I had to say, and the
people who weren't saying anything got the benefit of a reasoned,
multi-sided debate.

In my opinion, there has yet to be that level of discourse about EJB, or
(to a lesser degree) OO business programming.  The conversation has been
more about "OO philosophy" rather than concrete examples, and the few
examples we have had haven't really been conclusive either way.  But
that hasn't stopped some people from dragging in terms like "Report
Program Generator" and insinuating that OO is somehow better than
procedural in all situations.  THOSE sorts of arguments don't hold water
here.

Anyway, I'd be interested to hear if anyone has some ideas on how we
might be able to better address this issue of OO and business
programming.  As I said, it's my position that it sucks, and I base that
on a lot of years of programming.  But if I'm wrong, I'd love to see it.
Maybe we can start an Open Source project on creating a small,
functional business application, and we can compare and contrast the RPG
and Java versions.

And finally, to all who get ticked off by my diatribes but yet can't
seem to hit delete (kind of like watching a train wreck <grin>), I
apologize for being a bit testy.  But every once in a while somebody
tries to turn this list into a Java development forum, and frankly there
are enough of those already.

</MODERATOR MODE>