Re: EGL and RPG - The Fastest Path to the Future

Aaron Bartell wrote:

Web applications are required, networking is required, multiple inputs

devices are required.

I would whole heartedly agree that web applications are required, because
afterall everyone has a browser installed by default on their PC desktop.
But that doesn't mean I should reformulate my entire approach to software
development because of a handful of customer facing applications, should
it?

Okay, we're skating very close to areas where we're not going to agree. But in my opinion, an application architecture should from the ground up handle ALL applications. You do that by creating UI-independent server logic and then adding the appropriate intrefaces, be it programmatic such as web services or user-centric, such as browsers.

So, to me, the exact same business logic has to handle browser and hand-held devices and web services and green screens. Which means that the UI logic needs to be out of the business logic. The last thing I see a need for is an RPG-specific GUI extension. Instead, use all the wonderful frameworks out there and provide a seamless interface to the business logic.

Oh wait, they did! It's EGL!

I won't digress into my "single language" comments here,

If you do any web work, you need to know HTML and CSS and JavaScript and everything else. The "single language" concept went away with the web. That is, unless you use some kind of construct to wrap around those complexities so that you don't need to worry about them. In your vision, that's a dedicated client. With EGL, it's the 4GL itself. Either of those is possible, but the 4GL is much more flexible because it's built to integrate open standards, whereas the dedicated client can only run where the client software exists.

In fact, aren't you suggesting using a rich client framework that runs on the desktop? If so, how do you export that to, say, a Macintosh? Or a PDA? Or a handheld bar scanner? Or a GPS device? Or a DNLA-enabled home network?

but would like to
state that I believe RPG shops adopting EGL for the front end will most
likely start to migrate their business logic and DB IO into EGL also.

I don't understand your point here. If they can write it faster and it runs better in EGL, then yes they will. But then again, that's what the SQL folks have been pushing for a long time with their "no native I/O" silliness. I'll continue to push against that SQL-only just like I will push against rip and replace with EGL, and I'm confident that most companies will realize the folly of either approach.

I am
not saying "how would Joe Pluta do it" because you like having RPG on the
backend, but the reality is that most people will go for the one language
environment, and being EGL is the new kid on the block with a fresh look I
would say it will inevitably (and gradually) take over the other areas of
the programming stack. I have found this to be true in cases where
Microsoft technologies have been adopted. Would you agree on this point?

What do you base that on? The incredible uptake of RPG ILE? <grin> Aaron, I'd have to say that the overwhelming historical evidence on the platform suggests that RPG programmers don't jump willy-nilly to a new technology. When it comes to replacing the tools we know, we are slow and careful. And that's why I love EGL - it allows RPG programmers to do the part that RPG doesn't do well - the user interface - while still integrating seamlessly with what RPG does well.

Me, I'd say the bigger threat to the RPG community is PHP, because it's a completely different paradigm. RPG programmers can pick up EGL in a heartbeat; PHP is one of those "technologist" languages. But I digress.

I appreciate your position - you basically want a thick client replacement of the 5250 interface integrated tightly into the RPG language. I won't say that's a bad position per se, but I really don't think it's the idea that has the best ROI for the language or the platform. It may have some potential to extend the life of RPG through language lock-in, but I don't know that even that is enough to recommend it, since in my opinion the language still has a lot of years left in it.

Joe