|
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 10:24:47 -0500
From: aaronbartell@xxxxxxxxx
To: egl-i@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [EGL-i] EGL and RPG - The Fastest Path to the Future
YES YES YES! Jon, I couldn't have said it better myself.
I know there are IBM'ers here on the lists so I don't mean to slight
anybody, but it makes me wonder how many of them have lived through the
solid 5250/*DSPF days. Sure it wasn't completely uneventful/painless, but
it was a lot easier than living in what we have now (i.e. browser - RPG-CGI
or EGL or PHP). Is EGL their best effort so far in the platform agnostic
approach - yes, but that isn't what we have wanted or needed.
In my mind IBM is trying to play in the sandbox of follow-the-leader when
instead they should be redefining the enterprise GUI app stack. I am not
looking to develop the next Facebook or eBay with my iSeries, but instead
looking for ways I can build order entry apps, inventory apps, insurance
apps, and keep all processing on a single server with ease of deployment and
seamless stateful processing. Going to the general public web browser
constitutes a fraction of the applications a business builds to meet their
customers needs, yet IBM would like us to switch EVERYTHING over to this
approach as the new-best-way to do application developement - I don't buy
it.
To go back to what I have stated before, IBM's greatest successes seem to
always come when they have control over (and have owned) the whole spectrum
(i.e. DB2/RPG/"IBM i"/5250). Now they are trying to play in the open
specification space (i.e. HTTP, XML, JSON, HTML, Javascript, CSS, Browsers,
etc) and it is hurting their ability to shine. It is interesting to see the
"thicker" clients that Adobe, Microsoft, and Sun are coming out with (i.e.
Flex/AIR, Silverlight and JavaFX respectively). They are recognizing the
need for a simplified proprietary client environment and are looking to get
to the same app stack we have had on the iSeries for decades.
Am I way off base IBM?
Aaron Bartell
http://mowyourlawn.com
On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 9:49 AM, john e wrote:
--
FTA:
Cancilla: One of the benefits of RPG is that you can use the language and
focus on understanding a business problem. This is in sharp contrast to,
say, Java developers or C++ developers coming out of a computer-science
curriculum where the focus is almost purely on technology.
If we really want to focus on business instead of technology, then why not
leverage the real potential of the AS/400, i.e. a completely server centric
approach within a simple, but powerful, and predictable environment, where
the *complete* program is running on the server. And which communicates with
the user via a 5250-like architecture. I.e. all code that is relevant (the
application code) resides *and* runs on the server (the host). And the
program uses an underlying architecture to present a modern user interface
(a GUI that is).
But using EGL (or any other web technology) we are moving to client/server,
the application is split up on the server and the client using completely
different technologies.
These whole client/server and web/browser technologies *are* coming from a
computer-science curriculum. It's cool, etc etc. But business is about
reliability, and cost effective computing. And that is where the as/400 with
5250 shines (not counting the abominable 24x80 green screens). That is
business oriented computing. Now we move (like the rest of the world) to
"browser" based computing, which definitely has not emerged because it is so
much better than host centric computing. It is simply more "cool", but not
better. Therefore, the only reason RPG programmers want to use EGL is simply
to put a pretty face on RPG. And that's simply because IBM completely
neglected the business advantage of the as/400. IBM simply sees money in
"open" and complex technologies, selling services. Wat we really, but really
really need in IT is simplicity. And the as400 platform gives us this much
needed simplicity.
IBM should have recognized the real value of the as/400 and built on that
(i.e. modernizing the 5250 architecture). But instead they go with the flow
because that made them money the last 10 years (open technologies, services,
and no as/400 which "just works"). The rest is simply bullocks.
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 09:26:15 -0500
From: joepluta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx; rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx; egl-i@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [EGL-i] EGL and RPG - The Fastest Path to the Future
There's been some discussion both on and off the list about what EGL
bodes for the future of the platform and specifically RPG. I've been
pretty clear in my opinion that EGL may be the best thing to happen to
RPG since the display file, but I've heard a lot of muttering that "IBM
is going to kill RPG".
To find the truth, you have to recognize that IBM isn't a single
monolithic entity. While there is definitely a segment of the EGL team
that believes EGL can do anything RPG can do, another segment
understands full well that there are billions of lines of RPG code out
there - the last thing I read was that we're actually *adding* four
billion lines a year - and that a fundamental requirement of efficient
modernization involves taking advantage of that legacy code... and those
legacy programmers!
If you'd like to see a discussion of this issue that falls more in line
with this view of modernization, go here:
http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/i5/february08/qa/19749p1.aspx
Joe
--
This is the EGL on and around the IBM i (EGL-i) mailing list
To post a message email: EGL-i@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/egl-i
or email: EGL-i-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
at http://archive.midrange.com/egl-i.
_________________________________________________________________
De leukste online filmpjes vind je op MSN Video!
http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=nl-nl
--
This is the EGL on and around the IBM i (EGL-i) mailing list
To post a message email: EGL-i@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/egl-i
or email: EGL-i-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
at http://archive.midrange.com/egl-i.
This is the EGL on and around the IBM i (EGL-i) mailing list
To post a message email: EGL-i@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/egl-i
or email: EGL-i-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
at http://archive.midrange.com/egl-i.
As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
This mailing list archive is Copyright 1997-2024 by midrange.com and David Gibbs as a compilation work. Use of the archive is restricted to research of a business or technical nature. Any other uses are prohibited. Full details are available on our policy page. If you have questions about this, please contact [javascript protected email address].
Operating expenses for this site are earned using the Amazon Associate program and Google Adsense.
midrange.com
