Re: the ASSET issue again -- BPCS-L

To All,

Have you stopped to consider that perhaps the statement that was made regarding
the review of AS/SET may actually be for some of the reasons being thrown around
on this board.

This board provides a lot of good discussion.  Please let's get back to some
reasonable topics.

SSA Inc. is dead, SSA Global Technologies is moving forward with new management
and ideas.  I hope this will correct some of the inherent problems.







"L. S. Russell" <leslier@datrek.com> on 09/20/2000 08:16:36 AM

Please respond to BPCS-L@midrange.com

To:   BPCS-L@midrange.com
cc:    (bcc: Peter Greenfield/SSA/US)
Subject:  Re: the ASSET issue again



The main difference here is that RPG programmers are talking about RPG
code and AS/SET programmers are talking about AS/SET code.
You will never get a CASE tooler to say anything bad about the tool when
in so doing they must say something good about the base language.  I
will say one thing good about AS/SET, given Dean's explanation of the
poor programmer causing poor code, AS/SET allowed a room full of $50,000
monkey's to write a software version of Hamlet.

Ken & Gloria Cox wrote:
>
> ASSET
>
> A language that needs another Language to do anything.
> I'm sure SSA has made a bundle off of it when they should
> have kept it in house and distributed straight RPG or C++
> code. Of course by distributing asset we should understand
> why it still writes code in the original Program Model as
> poorly as it can. Now What programs use the ECH file again?
> Overhead, overhead, overhead, Wonder why SSA went bankrupt?
> How about those programs that cannot be displayed in one
> member.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-bpcs-l@midrange.com [mailto:owner-bpcs-l@midrange.com]On
> Behalf Of Genyphyr Novak
> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 4:29 PM
> To: BPCS-L@midrange.com
> Subject: Re: the ASSET issue again
>
> Hello L S
>
> You seem to be missing the point on this one.
>
> >Who cares what the Action diagram looks like, it can be perfect and
> >AS/SET will still generate bloated and unreadble RPG.
>
> AS/SET does. This is the starting point for the code generator to create the
> RPG source. First rule of programming is : Garbage in = Garbage out. Until
> you view the action diagram which produced the source and say there is no
> empty subroutine in that diagram, you can show me all the source in the
> world and it will not prove a single thing on the subject I was specifically
> addressing, which was why there are some empty subroutines called in the
> BPCS RPG code.
>
> Thanks
>
> Genyphyr Novak
> SSA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: L. S. Russell <leslier@datrek.com>
> To: BPCS-L@midrange.com <BPCS-L@midrange.com>
> Date: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 12:54 PM
> Subject: Re: the ASSET issue again
>
> >I am basing my opinons on reading the source code on our system, would
> >you like some samples?
> >You seem to think AS/SET is god's gift to software design, it really is
> >just a flawed tool that generates what can only be described as a
> >pitiful excuse for RPG.
> >
> >Who cares wht the Action diagram looks like, it can be perfect and
> >AS/SET will still generate bloated and unreadble RPG.
> >
> >Genyphyr Novak wrote:
> >>
> >> The "No I don't use AS/SET" comment says it all for me. Not sure what you
> >> are basing your opinions on here, if you are just looking at the RPG
> source,
> >> rather than what it is generated from (ie, the Action Diagram).
> >>
> >> The generator does not generate empty subroutines from a well-written
> >> written action diagram. This is the fault of someone commenting out only
> a
> >> portion of the action diagram, probably in the process of fixing a BMR,
> and
> >> not getting references to the subroutine properly removed in the rest of
> the
> >> code.
> >>
> >> By the way, I never said there were not empty subroutines in the RPG
> source.
> >> My point is that the reason for them existing has nothing to do with some
> >> flaw in the AS/SET tool itself.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Genyphyr Novak
> >> SSA
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: L. S. Russell <leslier@datrek.com>
> >> To: BPCS-L@midrange.com <BPCS-L@midrange.com>
> >> Date: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 8:33 AM
> >> Subject: Re: the ASSET issue again
> >>
> >> >No, I don't use AS/SET.  But I have looked at more than enough AS/SET
> >> >code to know that, yes Virginia there are empty sub routines.
> >> >
> >> >Genyphyr Novak wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Hello,
> >> >>
> >> >> Subroutines getting executed with no code to run inside them is not
> from
> >> the
> >> >> tool itself generating this, but is due to the person who did the
> >> coding -
> >> >> most likely some BMR had a subroutine commented out, but not all
> >> references
> >> >> to it were removed elsewhere, so it is called and does nothing. Sorry
> to
> >> >> say, this is not the fault of the tool. Are you are using AS/SET? It
> >> sounds
> >> >> like you have never looked at the action diagrams to check to see what
> >> they
> >> >> look like.
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks
> >> >>
> >> >> Genyphyr Novak
> >> >> SSA
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: L. S. Russell <leslier@datrek.com>
> >> >> To: BPCS-L@midrange.com <BPCS-L@midrange.com>
> >> >> Date: Monday, September 18, 2000 2:54 PM
> >> >> Subject: Re: the ASSET issue again
> >> >>
> >> >> >A loop is a loop, but a loop executed 15 times unnecessarily in
> effect
> >> >> >slows down a program.
> >> >> >Things like statementless loops, and sub routines (with nothing but
> >> >> >BEGSR and ENDSR) are common in the AS/SET generated code we work in
> >> >> >here.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Betty, back me up :) lol
> >> >> >
> >> >> >helen@dekko.com wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I do not agree that the ASSET generated programs take longer to
> >> execute.
> >> >> >> The development time has been reduced significantly using this tool
> >> and I
> >> >> >> believe that it is not all that difficult to debug using STRISDB.
> >> It's
> >> >> >> simply a matter of becoming familiar with the naming conventions
> and
> >> >> >> getting accustomed to reading ASSET source.
> >>
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