Re: the ASSET issue again

All true, but this stuff wouldn't fly in a *nix shop.  Some where out
there some propellar head has written an AS/SET optimizer or beautifier
for AS/SET generated C code.  So why do 400 programmers sit down and
take it?  Sure it is a case tool, but if you know it will generated RPG,
write it so that it generates optimized RPG not garbage (and I do mean
garbage). 

It can be done, just take a look at the code generated by Macromedia's
Dreamweaver 2.0; compare that code to code generated by Frontpage 2000
and then by a competant HTML author.  You will see that Dreamweaver
generates some of the most elegant HTML on the planet (even better than
some hand coders).  Now HTML is a free form language, and a highly
complicated one at that, so if Macromedia can generate efficent and
pretty HTML why would you settle for ugly and inefficent code from your
ERP vendor?  And why would you deffend the tool maker for producing such
garbage??   Makes no sense to me.

gmihajlo@ssax.com wrote:
> 
> Just to comment on Chick's objection about large amount of AS/SET code 
>presented
> as comments in the generated RPG source: I understand that it might be a bit
> annoying to one RPG programmer to analyze the code with all these 'extra'
> comments, but benefits of having them, as per my opinion, often outweighs the
> inconvenience of having them. When I started writting a code in AS/SET I found
> it much more convenient to analyze the generated RPG source looking the 
>comments
> lines with the AS/SET code instead of generated RPG code in the same source. 
>As
> with all languages used with CASE tools, they are talking to the programmers 
>in
> more human-like language and thus allow faster analysis of the code.  Also, as
> Helen mentioned, ISDB is really taking you easily through the code ignoring 
>the
> comment lines, once you need to debug the program.
> Furthermore, although ADK really generates much longer code than one RPG
> programmer would write, it does that in an automatic manner (finally it is 
>only
> a tool), so after some time of dealing with AS/SET code, you see that there 
>are
> certain rules in such extranious code and by only seeing the name of 
>subroutines
> generated, you already have an idea what it does etc.
> And yes it is true that ADK will generate sometimes 100 lines of code for
> something that RPG programmer would use 15 lines only, but if you take into
> account that 100 RPG lines of code have been generated from maybe 5-10 lines 
>of
> AS/SET code, then I would think that this is something you also should compare
> with 15 lines of optimal RPG manually written code and consider when 
>estimating
> how much time your shop would spend for the maintenance of code.
> The above things might not be that obvious with smaller programs, but when you
> talk about huge RPG programs, readibility and maintenance time of such 
>programs
> become more important.
> Finally talking about the performance of such code, obviously again, longer 
>code
> has to run longer too, however if I compare that difference with improvements 
>in
> performance achieved in latest BPCS versions (V6.1.01) by redesigning the 
>code,
> I wouldn't consider it important. Try to see it in the way that by giving us
> (developers in SSA) a tool which makes our job easier and coding faster, it 
>gave
> us more time to look into the quality of the code and use of techniques which
> would result in more performance efficient code. When saying this I have again
> V6.1.01 in mind which by all comments on this list, runs much better, faster 
>and
> more reliable than its predcessors. I can also say that I believe that further
> improvements are also on the way and definitely you are going to see soon 
>those
> dead subroutines disappearing from the code.
> At the end, for those who do not like to see AS/SET lines  of code in 
>generated
> RPG source, you can choose a 'level of commenting in the generated code'
> parameter to be set to 'N' (none) (instead of 'P'=Partial, or 'F'=Full) at
> generation time and you will have them all taken out from RPG source. Bellow 
>is
> the screen where this can be done (option 7 in ADK):
> 
> ________________________________________________
>  DP05025      Generation Options -  ACP200D
> 
>  Run pre-processor . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   Y  Y N
>      Run in Batch or Interactive . . . . . . .   B  I B
> 
>  Generation options  . . . . . . . . . . . . .   3  1 2 3 4 5
>      1=Generate source only
>      2=Generate objects only
>      3=Generate source and objects
>      4=None (Required for interactive pre-process)
>      5=Select all required objects for generation
> 
>  Level of commenting in generated code . . . .   N   F P N
>      F=Full  P=Partial  N=None
> 
>  Enter  F1=Help  F12=Cancel
> ________________________________________________
> 
> p.s.: this is not defence of SSA, it is just an opinion from somebody who 
>found
> this tool not to be that bad as it is for some other people who prefer RPG.
> 
> Regards,
> Goran
> 
> "Bernard Burchell" <burchelb@connexus.net.au> on 09/18/2000 08:18:07 AM
> 
> Please respond to BPCS-L@midrange.com
> 
> To:   BPCS-L@midrange.com
> cc:    (bcc: Goran Mihajlovic/SSA/US)
> 
> Subject:  Re: the ASSET issue again
> 
> <plug on>
> 
> 'AS/SET Quickie Print' can remove all the deleted code lines while leaving
> the genuine comments in.  Makes a program much easier to read.  Download:
> http://www.precosis.com.au .
> </plug>
> 
> As for RPG source, in theory you're not supposed to read it.  But if
> debugging a program with STRISDB then yes, it's a bit of a strain!
> Fortunately ISDB colours the code lines differently so you only need to look
> for the comment immediately above an RPG code line.
> 
> Bernard Burchell
> bburchell@precosis.com.au
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chick Doe <Cdoe@barton-instruments.com>
> To: BPCS-L@midrange.com <BPCS-L@midrange.com>
> Date: Sunday, September 17, 2000 5:45 AM
> Subject: the ASSET issue again
> 
> >there's been a lot said in the last couple of days about SSA and AS/SET.
> while i am not a fan of it, i can understand the logic of writing code in
> AS/SET that could then be compiled and run on multiple environments. yes you
> will sacrifice performance, but if the intent was to provide improved
> functionality at less cost, then i can understand the logic. whether this
> was ever delivered or not is another question.
> >
> >but what drives me absolutely insane is SSA's practice of commenting out
> lines in both the AS/SET source and in the resulting RPG source. much o the
> complexity in trying to read these damn programs is just trying to decipher
> which lines are still executable statements and which are now comments. my
> guess is that well over half of all statements in their programs are old
> lines of code that are now comments. TAKE THEM OUT AND GIVE US SOURCE
> PROGRAMS THAT CAN BE READ!
> 
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