RE: Re: Serious speed issues...

Since I started this whole mess I'm going to post one more time with the
suggestion we move on to something more productive.

I would first like to state that it was Brad's first book that got me
interested in ILE.  You pushed me to improve my skill set and I am eternally
grateful, especially as a "Joe(L) 1-programmer" type myself.  Now I'm into
ILE, free form, CGI, Java, HTTP, Apache, Tomcat and a slew of others all
because of the spark you lit for me.  I have advanced so much that I am even
sought out by numerous parties for my knowledge, experience, and advice on
such matters, both on and off the 400.

I am not tooting my own horn: I'm trying to make a point.  Brad, if you had
used RPGIII instead of RPGIV ILE to demonstrate CGI I would probably still
be useing RPGIII today.  I wouldn't be half the professional that I've
become.  So maybe there is something you are robbing your audience of by NOT
using the most up to date techniques.  Then again, who am I to say... as a
single member of your audience I'm in no position to understand the complete
dynamic.  But if your typical reader is like me, then seeing something they
don't already know or understand will help them improve their skills by
providing motivation to learn.

Joel Cochran



-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Stone [mailto:brad@bvstools.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 9:21 AM
To: web400@midrange.com
Subject: Re: [WEB400] Re: Serious speed issues...


> I think Jon already responded nicely when he said 'Why
> teach new
> techniques using "old" tools - it doesn't make sense.'

Mainly because not everyone is using the new techniques.
And when you introduce a new topic like varying length
strings into a topic that is already confusing enough to the
average green screen programmer, it just makes it more
frustrating.

I like to remind those on the list that while we come here
for the latest and greatest, a much larger portion of the
RPG world is still working with RPGIII or RPGIII converted
to RPGIV code.  They also lurk on these lists.

>From responses from my books, I'd say I chose the right
path.  Those that are more advanced should have no problem
converting it to "newer techniques".  And I highly encourage
it in my books as well.

The biggest problem people have (actually there are 2) are
learning HTML and learning the very small bit of ILE that is
required for this.  Which is why in my 2nd book there is an
entire chapter on ILE...  enough to get the non-ILEer done.

When I write a book, or an article, I don't write for the
technically advanced folks like you and Jon.  I write it for
Joe 1-ProgrammerShop that is still fighting with his boss to
upgrade from CISC to RISC because I stil feel this is a
large part of my audience.

Sales and response to the books proves that this is a great
path to choose, although it is different from the other
mainstream authors and speaker's techniques.

Why leave the reader dumbfounded on a new topic like varying
length strings.  They see CHECKR, and know it.  So they're
comfortable.  Instead of thinking "wow, I attended a seminar
that tought me so many things I didn't know about, but where
do I start?" I want them to think "I'm comfortable with
everything but these 2 or 3 items... which I can learn and
work on."

There's no denying statistics with sales and response here.
In a couple years, sure, varying length fields will be more
mainstay, but right now, I don't feel so.  Or, if I WAS
writing for you or Jon or a bunch of others that frequent
these lists, then sure, I would try and "impress" my peers
using newer techniques.  But that's not my goal and it
shouldn't be the goal of any "teacher".  Your first job is
to teach.  No impress.

> So on the one hand, the fact that character varying and
> %LEN() are
> faster than using CHECKR or %TRIM() doesn't really matter
> a whole
> bunch.  Barbara uses a great metaphor - it's like
> standing on a
> chair to get closer to the Moon.  (OK, that may be a bit
> extreme in
> this case.)

I've heard her say that.. I love that one.  I also like
"trying to drink from a firehose" as a metaphore to trying
to incorporate too many "newer" techniques into learning one
main one.. ie e-RPG.  You already have to learn HTML, HTTP,
Some JavaScript, a little ILE, why throw any more in there.
If the user is comfortable with it, they will change in on
their own.  And feel even better.

>
> I think the main issue is clarity of code.  I would argue
> that using
> varying length character data makes for more readable
> code since you
> don't have to constantly bridge the semantic gap between
> fixed
> length and varying length string requirements.

Yes, for you it's more clear.  But, as I already expressed
more that once, it's not the clearist for the majority of
programmers out there.  And remember, those who frequent
this list do NOT represent the majority.  We forget that too
often.

When I talk with user groups, shops, and programmers, I do
questionaires.  I know my audience.  I know what they want,
what they're using, etc...  most still haven't even started
with ILE.  But slowly they are getting there.

Thanks for clarifying the speed issue, though.  I didn't
think it was anything to get "dissapointed" over, eh Jon?
:)

Brad
www.bvstools.com
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