Re: Moving from Green screen app to GUI because of push back

I think this says it absolutely perfectly. GUI is a new way of thinking and
taking a green screen programmer and expecting him or her to build high
quality GUI screens is just a bridge too far in my mind.

GUI programmers should be building GUI screens and should just be
requesting data from the system or sending data for update.

The RPG programmer knows the back end. Knows the database. Know the system.

I don't believe that we should be creating Green Screen at all anymore.

Separate out the front end and the back end. Messages in XML or JSON or
Text back and forth.

<< When the world of GUI came about, I do not believe most people
understood
what is was all about. GUI requires redevelopment. It a whole new way
of
thinking. My experience with programmers and companies is they want
the
5250 screens in a GUI format. Its doable but its not the way to do it
and
this is the reason for the poor adoption of GUI.

Its like taking the horse to water but you cannot make the horse
drink the water.

GUI is client server. Today you need a team for the GUI part and IBM
i
folk for the back end (RPG, COBOL, SQL...). There simply is too much
for a
traditional IBM i developer to know and do.>>

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 11:58 AM, Booth Martin <booth@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Yes, yes, and yes. I especially like the comment about 5250 v. gui
designs. One of my first revelations is that screen-at-a-time processes
foster crammed screens, fields every where while keystroke based

processes

offer two or three fields and then move to the next step. The result is
easier user training because the work flow is more directed from small

step

to small step. So I decided to carry that few-fields-at-a-time to 5250

and

was surprised how today's computers, with their speeds and capabilities,
offers us 5250 performance that has pretty much the same flexibility and
speed as keystroke processes.

Therefore, lets not build 5250 screens crammed full with input fields and
trying to capture everything with one Enter key. Lets use gui work flow
with 5250 and use those advantages to our advantage. Forego the one or 2
format display screens and have 5 or 6. Break it all down so it flows

from

small piece to small piece.

A disclaimer here: I am not denigrating gui. I am only saying if you
have 5250, if thats what you have and thats all you're going to get, then
for pete's sake! Up your game. Do what you can do with 5250. Don't stay
in an F-key world. If your screen says "F23-anything" you need to

rethink

your design paradigm.


On 12/14/2017 10:47 AM, a4g atl wrote:

Adding my 2 cents worth....

When the world of GUI came about, I do not believe most people

understood

what is was all about. GUI requires redevelopment. It a whole new way of
thinking. My experience with programmers and companies is they want the
5250 screens in a GUI format. Its doable but its not the way to do it

and

this is the reason for the poor adoption of GUI.

Its like taking the horse to water but you cannot make the horse drink

the

water.

GUI is client server. Today you need a team for the GUI part and IBM i
folk for the back end (RPG, COBOL, SQL...). There simply is too much

for a

traditional IBM i developer to know and do.

The history of GUI already shows that GUI has a short life span of 3 to

4

years and then it needs to be replaced or more GUI device types added.
This
requires lots of training.

The back end, if designed properly using API's, web services and stored
procedures, will not change. The server simply serves out the data. You
will, though, continue to add new API's, web services and and stored
procedures.

Darryl.




On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Nathan Andelin <nandelin@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 7:14 PM, Booth Martin <booth@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

wrote:

What, specifically, would this GUI do? What would it look like? Would

it

have its own .css file files but different tags? Would you see it as
something that competes with javascript? php. Python?

Good questions. Having myself just filled out the form at the RFE

site,

I
can attest to the type of detail that IBM is looking for in order to
justify their investment in new technology. They look for things that
meet
the needs of many if not most customers. They look to satisfy the
requirements of IBM shareholders.

Hopefully somebody like Alex Roytman doesn't read the RFE and say:

Hey, they appropriated all our ideas and are cajoling IBM to undercut

us.

So, that is what they meant by "no offence to 3rd party vendors".

Gives a

new meaning to the term "business partner".

In regard to IBM shareholders, they appear to have been burned by past
investments, such as EGL. I can imagine IBM trusting someone like Bob
Cancilla, based on his vast industry experience and standing in the

IBM i

community, assuring IBM that RPG shops are going to lap this stuff up.
Without it, the platform is doomed.

Sometimes, developers of in-house ERP systems simply can't keep up with
the
functional and non-functional things that vendors have been putting

into

their packages. There's not much that IBM can do about that.
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