I always apply PTFs permanently before an OS Upgrade as well, but I always apply PTFs perm after they have been on the system for a while. Basically before I put the next cumulative on, I apply everything permanently. This is especially important for the MF PTFs on 57xx-999, as it means that what is currently on the B side (of LIC), now is on the A side. So, if applying new 57xx-999 PTFs from the cume (which will always have new MF PTFs) and you put on a bad MF PTF which prevents you from IPLing, you could just IPL from the A side which would be the LIC (License Internal Code) that you were running right before the update.

I have never seen PTFs *SAVF remain after an upgrade, but then again I always apply my PTFs perm as that is the right way to do it. So, I can't say that those objects would remain.


Pete Massiello
iTech Solutions

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of rob@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 7:37 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: RE: PTF apply philosophyies

There are pros, and cons, to permanently applying PTFs. General rule of thumb is to permanently apply all PTF's before an OS upgrade. Failure to do so will leave many orphan objects on your system for all eternity. For example, let's say ptf SI12345 fixes program QSOMETHING. When you put on ptf SI12345 IBM backs up the original program QSOMETHING into a save file and leaves it on your system. This way, if you remove that ptf, it can restore it from that save file. When you permanently apply SI12345 it deletes the save file containing the original QSOMETHING. If you've ever watched your IPL during a PTF apply and saw "5000 objects processed"
during the apply of one ptf, you start to realize how significant these ptf save files can be.

The main con is, if you want to back one PTF off. It gets to be rather tough, if it's permanently applied. Normally not something you do if you've been running that PTF for a few months.

The exception that proves the rule is Domino. I never permanently apply PTF's to Domino unless I am getting ready to remove that version of Domino. It is quite often that I have to remove one fix to apply another.
Therefore a Domino shop should probably avoid the APYPTF LICPGM(*ALL) approach. Do them one by one.

Rob Berendt
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1 Group Dekko Dept 1600 Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755

From: "Bakutis, Becky" <BBakutis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 06/05/2014 06:42 PM
Subject: RE: PTF apply philosophyies
Sent by: "MIDRANGE-L" <midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

"Generally I do like load and run Temp and SAVE 22. Run for perhaps 2 or
3 months. Then perm apply all and SAVE 22. Then repeat as necessary."

This brings up a question I have and am interested in what others do.
Currently immediately before applying a new CUME I apply the 5770999 PTFs
permanently. Someone asked if maybe we should apply all PTFs permanently
prior to applying a CUME. Is there a reason to apply all other than
having a base level of PTFs?

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 5:05 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: PTF apply philosophyies

I do a LOT of PTFs and spoken to many of the fine folks at IBM re PTFs and
the process.

First off it has been stated that MANY PTFs simply require an IPL. The
objects being replaced simply cannot be updated at any other time as they
are always in use or otherwise locked. A claim of 90% of PTFs can be
applied immediately doesn't align with what I see. I suppose it's possible
in fact but with all the pre and co requisite PTFs all it takes is one PTF
in the 'set' to require an IPL and the other PTFs are stuck so effectively
all the PTFs require an IPL.

I have heard several times that using *IMMDLY (Immediate if possible,
Delayed to IPL when mandatory) Is NOT recommended for any PTF Groups
including CUMEs. It's essentially impossible to read every cover letter
and deal with all the special instructions. Failure to follow the special
instructions can mean many things, not the least of which is that many of
the PTFs that APPEAR to be applied are not active until an action is
taken, frequently the action is to IPL (which I find annoying!)

I do concur with other comments that if you are not provided sufficient
time for backups, PTFs, and other maintenance then having an HA system is
near mandatory. Clearly NOT doing PTFs and proper saves is just a system
crash looking for a bad time to occur. If time is so short when you DO get
a window that any problems push you into being considered an outage that
also is 'living on the edge'. Also consider making your load source disk
an SSD, this will 'enhance PTF apply performance.'

Generally I do like load and run Temp and SAVE 22. Run for perhaps 2 or
3 months. Then perm apply all and SAVE 22. Then repeat as necessary.

- Larry "DrFranken" Bolhuis

On 6/4/2014 11:56 AM, Steinmetz, Paul wrote:

Management would like to minimize the IPL, PTF, and system save
HA/DR Is out of the question.
Currently, I try to IPL Production every 2 months for PTF apply along
with a system save.
The IPL and system save will probably go to 6 months or as needed.
90% of PTFs can be applied immediately without an IPL, however IBM does
not recommend immediate apply for more than a single PTF.
Applying a large amount of PTFs immediately has caused issues in the
Permission has been granted for the PTF immediate apply, but I'm weary
from previous issues.

Any thoughts from the group.

Thank You
Paul Steinmetz
IBM i Systems Administrator

Pencor Services, Inc.
462 Delaware Ave
Palmerton Pa 18071

610-826-9117 work
610-826-9188 fax
610-349-0913 cell
610-377-6012 home


This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
list To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe,
unsubscribe, or change list options,
or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please take a
moment to review the archives at

This thread ...


Return to Archive home page | Return to MIDRANGE.COM home page