That's a bit harsh isn't it Steve?

Gosh, anyone willing to improve their skills and then take a test to see if
they've figured it out should be given credit far beyond the person that's
only interest is whether or not the company's real work stops at noon on

One of my pet peeves is that I do not like competing for projects with
programmers that are looking for consulting jobs because they can't find a
real job.  I do wish there was a way I could differentiate myself from the
consultant that leaned over to me on one project and said "What's this DDS
thing they're talking about?"  Testing seems like a way that I can give an
objective measure of my skill levels.

Booth Martin

-------Original Message-------

Date: Friday, November 01, 2002 02:08:38 PM
Subject: [Consult400] Re: ICCA members

> From: "Patrick Conner" <>

> To:

> Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 09:11:06 -0500

> Subject: [Consult400] ICCA members


As part owner of a consulting firm that has employed as many as 120
consultants (mostly full-time employees), and in a position of being a
hiring manager, here's my 2 cents worth:

> How many of you are members of the Independent Computer

> Consultants Assoc. (ICCA)? I was thinking of joining.

I am not a member of ICCA. I have looked at what they have to offer, and it
looks to me that they are oriented towards one-man shops. I already have in
place most of the benefits that they might offer. If I were on my own, I
might consider joining. That's not to say that it might benefit you.

You need to measure the benefits that you gain to the cost. If your current
insurance premium is $ 500.00 per month and you can reduce it to $ 300.00
per month by joining ICCA, then this alone would justify it.

> Also, I've been looking at the Certified Computer

> Profession certification. Is that worth anything?

It has been a while since I looked into this. Back when I did, I was not
particularly impressed with the certifications offered by the ICCP. In the
past, when I investigated it, the certification examinations were based on
questions that were oriented toward legacy systems.

In fact, when I see CCP or CDP behind someone's name (no offense to you,
Roger), I am more likely to be prejudiced NOT to hire them. I have a
Bachelor of Business Administration AND a Master's degree in Human Relations
and Business, but I don't sign my letters with BBA/MS behind my
signature...I think that's a little pretentious. Even if I had a doctoral
degree, I don't think that I would sign my correspondence Stephen Landess,

Again, I think that you need to evaluate the benefits you will gain versus
the cost and time required to obtain the certification. I measure them in
terms of dollars. This may be somewhat difficult to quantify, unless someon
e can provide you with empirical proof in the form that they made X dollars
from 1991 thru 1995, then got certified and made Y dollars from 1996 thru
2002, and can directly attribute the increase (if any) to the certifications

Since graduation from college in 1977, I have been lucky enough to work in
many S/34, S/36, S/38, and AS/400 shops that had multiple employees and many
different commercial software packages. I have learned MUCH more from
studying the code written by vendors and my peers than I will ever learn
from having formal certifications.

On the other hand, If I ever have time to attend another COMMON conference
(or if they are offered in a site convenient to me), I MAY be inclined to
take some of the IBM certification tests, just to get an idea of what they
consider appropriate knowledge to qualify as certified. Even then, I
wouldn't probably sign my correspondence with Stephen Landess, IBM Certified
Specialist. To me, this smells of someone who is inexperienced and is
trying to gain credence with the certification.

No offense intended...

And, as always, that's just my opinion

Steve Landess
Austin, Texas
(512) 423-0935

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