|
aboutIn fact I can write a new web service that talks to the iSeries in
20 minutes or less as well. Faster if I use my COMMON class examples :-)how
On this point I must make a comment. You can create a web reference and
generate your code stubs pretty quick with Visual Studio. However, when
anything is slightly amiss with the generated code I have seen more than
one .NET developer throw up their hands and say that our web service is
broken. So much so that I had to delve into the C# code and show them
to do it.use
I know this is a little off on a tangent, but saying you can write a web
service in 20 min. is quite a sweeping generalization.
Thanks,
Todd Allen
EDPS
Electronic Data Processing Services
tallen@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Richard Schoen
<richard@rjssoftw
are.com> To
Sent by: "web400@xxxxxxxxxxxx"
web400-bounces@mi <web400@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
drange.com cc
Subject
2010-10-08 13:14 Re: [WEB400] Microsoft .NET
frontending IBM i
Please respond to
Web Enabling the
AS400 / iSeries
<web400@midrange.
com>
Concerning SQL server, yes, many times it will start out that they will
tables on DB2, but then they realize that their tools don't work asto
seamlessly with DB2 as they do with MSSQL. And the creep of MSSQL starts
and before you know it there is a nightly push of table data from one DB
another.integrated
Ah, not really true. As of V6R1 the database stuff is entirely
to Visual Studio. The drivers work all the way back to V5R1.RPG-XML
See for yourself. Come to the dark side :-)
Paranoia can destroy ya ......
You can also use and take advantage of CGIDEV2/IWS and I imagine
services from ASP.Net so really all the service communications can bedone
via ASP.Net or by calling into the i.and
Agreed. But why not just keep all that processing on IBM i with RPG
NOT have to double many of the things I originally mentioned.(and
Would you agree that having .NET (and corresponding servers) AND RPG
corresponding servers) is more complex than just having one or the other?rocket
That is the point I am trying to make - but a lot of people just dismiss
that as "the cost of doing business" and > >don't give it ample
consideration.
Deploying an IIS server is a little more complex, but it's also not
science. You can teach anyone to deploy an app on IIS in 60 minutes or20
less :-)
In fact I can write a new web service that talks to the iSeries in about
minutes or less as well. Faster if I use my COMMON class examples :-)good
Keeping the iSeries one layer back from the web can also be seen as a
thing. Using IIS or for that matter another iSeries or Linux serverkeeps
the iSeries insulated and one layer back from the web.VMWare
Is that a good approach ? Depends on who you talk to. I actually like
keeping the iSeries one layer back whenever possible.
Of course that would all be entirely relative. Sure I could have 30
instances to facilitate the same processing power of a larger IBM i, butyou
why would I want to? In my mind there is a blatant scaling issue when
can't scale by adding processing power to a single OS instance andinstead
need to spread it across many OSes. Smells like that platform wasn'tever
really meant for what it was built for and it is now just a hypedband-aid
process called VMWare. FWIW, you don't create an IBM i LPAR for the samejust
reasons you create a Windows VMWare, so I think your comparison is a bit
unbalanced.
Why isn't the LPAR reasoning the same ? Seems that way to me. I want an
isolated environment for whatever reason. In fact an LPAR is usually
a big disk image just like a Vmware image that shares system resources.and
And isn't it called virtualization ? :-)
Please clarify......
Have you ever used Vmware in a real production environment ?
One server with several Vmware instances can do more than that server
could with a single OS instance. IE (LPAR) :-)
We have 10 VMware Server instances on a single Intel piece of hardware
it does much more than 10 individual servers could accomplish standalone.a
You probably need to get familiar with the technology and use it in
production before bashing :-)
VMware is awesome and anyone who tells you different just hasn't used or
implemented it properly.
On a personal level I recently virtualized my 6 year old T40 to a laptop
that is 10 times faster than the T40 was. That's productivity gain !!
people up to try and live in a bubble that no longer exists, which is theBy disadvocating (Is that a word :-) ) Windows you're really setting
iSeries all by itself.
application on IBM i using only RPG and CGI? Note I haven't startedSo are you saying you can't do an entire, and modern looking, business
talking about email servers and the like (which IBM i is terrible at btw,
unfortunately).
Sure you can if that's where you only skillset lies and you desire an all
iSeries approach and you're not comfortable with other platforms.
Bottom line is it comes down to comfort factor.
I am also a staunch i-only advocate when appropriate, but you seem to be
advocating i-and-only-I which is pretty one-sided.
Open your mind young grasshopper :-)
I guess in the end what I disagree with is that many think you NEED
Microsoft on the front end to produce nice looking modern applications in
timely manner for IBM i/RPG shops, and that simply isn't true.CGIDEV
We agree on this point as well. We have done production apps using
along with Ajax, JSP and ASP.Net. They all work quite well and some workfrom
on all iSeries and some do not.
Depends on what the customer needs or wants.
Regards,
Richard Schoen
RJS Software Systems Inc.
Where Information Meets Innovation
Document Management, Workflow, Report Delivery, Forms and Business
Intelligence
Email: richard@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web Site: http://www.rjssoftware.com
Tel: (952) 736-5800
Fax: (952) 736-5801
Toll Free: (888) RJSSOFT
------------------------------
message: 2
date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 08:10:44 -0500
from: Aaron Bartell <aaronbartell@xxxxxxxxx>
subject: [WEB400] Microsoft .NET frontending IBM i
I thought I would change the subject of the email since we have split
OT.use
Concerning SQL server, yes, many times it will start out that they will
tables on DB2, but then they realize that their tools don't work asto
seamlessly with DB2 as they do with MSSQL. And the creep of MSSQL starts
and before you know it there is a nightly push of table data from one DB
another.thinking
In fact IBM has always proposed a 2 iSeries scenario when going to the
web
I would guess that is from the Websphere App Server folks - yes, I could
see why they would do two servers - they are from the same line of
as the Microsoft camp. You only need two servers if your HighAvailability
requirements mandate it. Otherwise IBM is just looking to get more moneyMono
in their pocket.
You can also use Apache to host .Net just as easily as PHP, JSP, etc.
Yes, but not on IBMi unfortunately, unless you want to go the route of
- but I don't know if that is a place I want to go.RPG-XML
You can also use and take advantage of CGIDEV2/IWS and I imagine
services from ASP.Net so really all the service communications can bedone
via ASP.Net or by calling into the i.consideration.
Agreed. But why not just keep all that processing on IBM i with RPG and
NOT have to double many of the things I originally mentioned.
Would you agree that having .NET (and corresponding servers) AND RPG (and
corresponding servers) is more complex than just having one or the other?
That is the point I am trying to make - but a lot of people just dismiss
that as "the cost of doing business" and don't give it ample
VMWare
ASP.Net scales probably just as well as the other methods you guys
have been throwing about. However I haven't done any millisecond
thread clocking :-)
Of course that would all be entirely relative. Sure I could have 30
instances to facilitate the same processing power of a larger IBM i, butyou
why would I want to? In my mind there is a blatant scaling issue when
can't scale by adding processing power to a single OS instance andinstead
need to spread it across many OSes. Smells like that platform wasn'tever
really meant for what it was built for and it is now just a hypedband-aid
process called VMWare. FWIW, you don't create an IBM i LPAR for the sameJSP
reasons you create a Windows VMWare, so I think your comparison is a bit
unbalanced.
people up to try and live in a bubble that no longer exists, which is theBy disadvocating (Is that a word :-) ) Windows you're really setting
iSeries all by itself.
So are you saying you can't do an entire, and modern looking, business
application on IBM i using only RPG and CGI? Note I haven't started
talking about email servers and the like (which IBM i is terrible at btw,
unfortunately).
Interesting enough EXTJS works just as well and simply with RPG, PHP,
and ASP.Net. Keep evangelizing that because EXTJS is a cool framework.in
Absolutely true! (glad we agree on something) What's even better is that
many cases you can go down to a more raw form of ASP.NET/PHP/JSP and nota
include all the extra layers and still get excellent looking code that is
easy enough to maintain. For example, this program could have been
written in any *single* server side language just as easy:
http://red.rpg-xml.com/oru11/dspf/custmaint.html
I guess in the end what I disagree with is that many think you NEED
Microsoft on the front end to produce nice looking modern applications in
timely manner for IBM i/RPG shops, and that simply isn't true.
Aaron Bartell
http://mowyourlawn.com
http://mowyourlawn.com/blog/
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