Re: Code donations for RPGUI initiative

You pretty much know where I stand. There is a tension between the proprietary and open source worlds that is well expressed by you and I. IP can still be protected, even in an open source environment if that is the goal, but that isn't my concern. I wish I were smart enough have an idea that was worth protecting ! As it is I have greatly benefited from open source contributors and so I feel an obligation to contribute back. It is the whole "pay it forward" concept that is the buzz today. The i platform needs more proponents and I see Open Source as a way to put an i shaped stake in the ground. So for me developing or contributing to open source projects is 1. A way to pay back a community I have benefited from 2. Establishes the i as an equally viable platform for solid web development. 3. Is a way for me to share what little I can and yeah, I *might* benefit long term from some notoriety but that is *way* down the list (Scott Klement and Aaron Bartell are my role models!)

You said: "You could spend thousands of hours donating code to open source projects and never get anything out of it" and my response is "Yes, *I* might not get anything out of it financially but I get a great deal of satisfaction from writing code and helping others solve technical problems". I could also say "You could spend thousands of hours writing proprietary code and never get anything out of it". That too, is true (believe me!). The difference is that the donated code may have a useful life in the community far longer than the proprietary code that never sees the light of day. Something about that altruism appeals to me, even if it doesn't make financial sense.

I wish I could tell you that my open source endeavors have made me financially well off. It hasn't, yet. With the loss of a large consulting contract last year and no regular employment at the moment, I am earning less than I did in 1992 when I left regular employment for wide wild world of entrepreneurship and consulting. But, it is what it is. Part of those last 18 years was developing proprietary code which has returned little, if anything, during that time. As I stated before, I think the key is marketing and sales rather than open vs proprietary. But open source has the added marketing advantage of generating some visibility through sharing so I guess it would have a slight leg up for a single person shop like mine that can't afford marketing and sales staff.

It is a cynical statement but true: If I was going to go broke writing proprietary software or go broke writing open source software, I'd rather do the latter. At least someone else would benefit from my efforts!

Pete


Nathan Andelin wrote:

From: Aaron Bartell
Have I convinced you to donate anything yet? :-)

No. As an individual programmer myself, I have fundamental issues against open source. GPL v3 in particular essentially removes all rights from original authors and places them in the public domain. Intellectual property rights intrinsically have much more value than individual domain experience and programming skill. The open-source movement removes that value from the individual and places it it the public domain. Ironically, individual programmers fall into the trap of donating under the pressure of soft-peddled promotional hype and the lure of being a part of a widely reaching endeavor.

It appears that for every successful open-source project in sorceforge there are a thousand failed. Sourcefore has become a veritable boneyard of all-but-abandoned and neglected projects.

Consider the appeal of the argument that programmers may look forward to $xxx hourly rates if they donate their intellectual property to a public repository. You should read the widespread moaning that has erupted at linkedin right now over an offshore firm offering $14 hourly rates for programmers with IBM i JDE experience. I empathize with most of the moaning.

I strongly believe that intellectual property rights for original authors and creators are fundamental to advancing the quantity and quality of new creative works, and that the open-source movement is hobbling more than helping creativity. You confirmed yourself that RPG based open-source projects have fundamental unresolved issues. Consider Mihael Schmid's JSON procedures. It took me less than an hour of looking at the code to realize that I would never use it in a Web application. It dynamically rebuilds and destroys the complete data model in memory prior to streaming it for both input and output for every request-response cycle. I'd never add that kind of overhead to my applications. But you latched onto it, and gung-ho promoted it, evidently because it was offered under GPL v3.

You could spend thousands of hours donating code to open source projects and never get anything out of it other than a few public accolades from a handful of people. Most beneficiaries of your donations wouldn't even offer their complements except for encouragement to motivate you to donate more. Most beneficiaries would appropriate your code and incorporate into their own private toolkits without contributing back. Some would even remove your copyright statements and insert their own.

One of the unfortunate realities of the world is that there is widespread desire to get something for nothing as opposed to quid pro quo, and the open-source movement fosters and promotes that type of culture.

Notwithstanding the negativity of open-source culture, I have profound respect for original authors and support their rights to do anything with their works, including their right do donate to public repositories.

Nathan.