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  3. August 2008

Re: What's the latest thinking ofthebesttwoorthreewebdevelopment languages/environ...

Dave,

The dtwdude.com site has all the docs that I know of for Net.Data. As
far as what gets you going fastest, that'll be interesting to see.
Like I said, I've done plenty of PHP but not with Zend Core and the i.
But I think our admins got it up and running pretty quickly and a few
of the guys in our shop wrote some proof of concept apps in it.

Another thing to think about... packages like XAMPP make it really
easy to set yourself up a little self-contained PHP development
environment on your PC. Granted, you're using mySQL as the database
instead of DB2, but for prototyping and proof of concept stuff, it's
pretty nice. If you're on a laptop and can't always be connected,
it's pretty nice.

Mike E.

On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 7:19 PM, Dave Odom <Dave.Odom@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Mike,

The estes site looks very nice and MUCH more than what I need but its nice to know the capability is there.

I hear your words-of-wisdom vis-a-vis PHP over Net.Data. I'm still trying to make my final decision but need to experiment with both and see which one gets me going the quickest. Isn't it true that much of what is created in Net.Data will migrate to PHP? Or am I just hoping.

I wish there was a listing of all the books, etc., for each language that tells me what I need to know to get things up and running quickly. Any ideas? However, I did get all the book links for Net.Data, I think, from Vern.

Thanks,

Dave

"Mike Eovino" <meovino@xxxxxxxxx> 8/11/2008 19:01 >>>
Dave,

Until late last year, all of http://www.estes ( http://www.estes/ )-express.com was written
in Net.Data, and I wrote most of it. For me, Net.Data was not so much
of a choice as a necessity. When I was hired, that's all I had to
work with. This was back in 1999. So I have a great deal of
experience with it. You'll see my name all over the forum.

As a language, it's extremely similar to PHP. However, there is
virtually nothing comparing to the PHP community and the amount of
open source software created by it. I'm also extremely concerned
about support. From what I have been told, there is one IBM'er still
working on it, and he is not working on it full-time. We've had
trouble with it scaling for us and we would up having to add
processors to the system and then moved to load balancing across two
systems. I don't think we have an inordinately high volume, but our
most popular apps get around 10,000 hits a day. According to IBM,
Java in WAS performs better than Net.Data. I believe that to a
certain extent, but then again we're improving our apps as we rewrite
them, so it's tough to tease that apart from the technology to tell
where the performance gains are coming from.

For our part, we've moved on to Java, but we started this move three
years ago when we began developing our intranet site. If we were
making this decision now, we would have to strongly consider PHP.
I've done several projects (not System i) in PHP, and I really like it
(especially when couple with the CodeIgniter framework).

I'm also working on a .NET project now, and it's a pretty interesting
idea for development. For a drag-and-drop programming environment,
it's not that bad. It's a completely different way of thinking about
web development.

Mike E.

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 9:12 PM, Dave Odom <Dave.Odom@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Jim,

Just printed it off so I can look at it in the "reading room" (multi-tasking).

Thanks,

Dave

"Jim Dillard" <jdillard@xxxxxxxx> 8/11/2008 17:50 >>>
Dave,
Comparison of Net.Data vs. PHP on IBM's web site (2/2007):
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/systems/library/es-phppart2/

This may also interest those moving from Net.Data to PHP.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Dave Odom
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 4:19 PM
To: Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: Re: [WEB400] What's the latest thinking of thebest
twoorthreewebdevelopment languages/environ...

Vern, and other Net.Data and PHP folks,

I thought you could run whatever Net.Data needed from the HTTP
environment on the i and thus there was no need for Apache? What am I
missing about how this is set up. I'll have to look at the Net.Data
books you suggested again unless there are newer/better. Then, if
Apache is necessary I'll have to find that set of manuals.

I'd also like to compare some Net.Data and PHP code to see how they do
the same thing. Know of any examples?

Boy did I start a discussion here. Didn't think it would get this far
but the discussion has been a good learning experience for me but I
think I've just hit the tip of the ice burg.

But, it now appears like the choices, for me, for now, are Net.Data and
PHP. Again, for now, my needs are fairly simple... picture the old
Green Screen menus that allow you to move from main menu to subordinate
with selections per topic area on each. That's what I need for now as
a Web app with those selections calling REXX, perhaps some CL/RPG and
DB2 Query Manager queries, Commands like WRKSPLF where the spool files
don't belong to the user logged on but are accesses, under the covers,
by generic userid with the privlidges with the spoolfile displayed on
the Web (perhaps the hardest to do).... this sort of thing. No fancy
stuff... yes using CSS would be nice but not necessary. Thoughts on
how to knock this out fairly quickly from nothing-set-up-on-the-system
to production web app(s)?

Thanks,

Dave

<vhamberg@xxxxxxxxxxx> 8/9/2008 10:58 >>>
Nathan

Very cool!

I see, for Dave's benefit, that the Apache HTTP Server Redbook has a
very simple example, as well as additional materials that can set up
things pretty quickly. Some of the stuff returns a table all filled out
- and a CSS import could take care of any style concerns very nicely.

Vern

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Nathan Andelin <nandelin@xxxxxxxxx>

From: vhamberg@...
it is good to hear this from one who is actually using it, if I read

you correctly.

I'm currently using a Net.Data file upload utility, which is based on
a macro
supplied by Peter Connell. The following thread is part of somewhat
lengthy
discussion on that topic:

http://archive.midrange.com/web400/200804/msg00013.html

I used Net.Data for a small contract job I did for Pearson Publishing
(in the
UK) a number of years ago. I'm also aware of a couple ISVs using
Net.Data for
applications for K-12 school districts in the US.

I actually did a bit of comparative analysis by prototyping an
application using
three different tools, one of which was my own ILE framework, while
the other
two were Net.Data & CGIDEV2. As I began working with Net.Data, it
struck me how
seductive it is to just save a macro on the IFS and run it. There's no
compile
step. And any errors are reported automatically in the output.

Nathan.



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