RE: RE: webfacing JD Edwards (

> From: Colm_Byrne@xxxxxxxx
> 
> I've looked at different iSeries legacy application and the available
> options for integrating those apps to the web and the good news is
that
> there are several excellent ways to bring legacy applications to the
web ,
> integrate to a unified corporate system and give legacy development
teams
> a way to keep in synch with the new technologies.
>
> We looked mainly at two different methodologies here, screen scraping
and
> migrating.
> Migrating means taking those green screens and converting them to JSPs
and
> Java using a conversion tool without modifying the underlying
applicaiton.
> 
> Websphere webfacing is recommended not only because it costs less than
> screenscraping, has a shorter development time and runs faster but
also
> because it opens a path to migrate out of your legacy solution in an
> iterative process  that can match the businss pace.

Colm, when mentioning alternatives to screenscraping, I note that you
skipped my PSC/400 tool, which actually was the FIRST "migration" tool.
We introduced the technology as Open Source back in 1999 (I even wrote a
book on it that was published in 2000).  We have since created a
commercial product and have clients that have been in production for
over a year.  You've made some bold assertions, and I think they might
be best considered with a little constructive counterpoint.

My biggest issue is with the word "free".  "Free" is a very relative
term.  Even if a tool doesn't cost anything, it may not be free.
Freeware solutions may cost you in integration.  Or you may pay in terms
of increased hardware costs or training.

For example, you suggest putting WDSC on every developer desktop.  This
is only "free" when every developer has a 2GHz machine with 1GB of RAM
(or at least something pretty hefty).  In many smaller shops, the PCs
are barely capable of running Client Access, much less something like
WDSC.  Multiply the price of a high-end machine times the number of
developers and you start running a bit of a tab.

In addition, to our way of thinking the biggest hidden cost of any tool
is in the amount of retraining required for your developers.  You
yourself outline the requirements for an expert in Webfacing:

> 1.  You don't absolutely need a consultant - give yourself the gift of
> knowledge by doing it yourself. If you need to bring in a consultant
to
> answer all your questions, make sure they are a java, oo, WAS, WSAD
> (studio), IBM Toolbox guru and can deconstruct the generated code from
> webfacing - not just someone who knows how to do webfacing (that can
be
> learned in an afternoon).

Sure, you can do all this yourself.  But we think your RPG programmers
should never have to learn another tool.  Instead, they should be able
to use a single OS/400 command to generate simple, easy to modify Open
Standards based JavaServer Pages - pages that can then be modified by
any programmer with basic JSP knowledge.  No special syntax, no
specialized tools, no retraining, no bulky PCs.


> One of the best benefits of webfacing is that it works out of the box.
You
> could have all your users on the web tomorrow. OK, that's an
exageration
> in reality- as your users might want to be trained,  some keywords
need
> reconfiguring etc.

We agree that working out of the box is crucial - so crucial that we
created our unique 5250 emulation mode.  PSC/400 literally can convert
your entire system to a web-based version of your green-screen
application, overnight, with no retraining necessary for end users.


> THE IRONIC THING.
> Webfacing scares many and many more think it's too good to be true.
This
> is why you may have a hard time convincing senior management that they
> don't have to go out and spend a $100K on a third party package.

That's right.  You don't have to pay $100K, and you don't have to pay
user-based pricing and per-seat licenses for development tools, either.
PSC/400 starts at $4995, and you can run it on a standard edition
iSeries, with zero interactive, which means you save more on hardware
than the entire cost of the software.  Since it requires no new skills
or PCs for your developers and no retraining for your end users, PSC/400
is as close to a free solution as you are going to find.


> Nothing is faster than a green screen. It's a fact of life. If you put
> Websphere App server on the iSeries, expect reduced response time.
However
> subsecond response time is still possible.

Subsecond response time should not just be "possible", it is a
requirement, at least on a LAN.  You should get subsecond response time
on a DSL line.  Check out our online demo to see the kind of response
you can get on a little model 270 with no interactive CPW over DSL.


Anyway, I could continue the comparisons, but the best thing to do is
just check it out.  I appreciate you relating your success with
Webfacing, and I know George and Phil will appreciate it.  But I think
it would be unfair to not mention PSC/400 which, while not a "free"
solution, may in fact be cheaper in the long run for some users than any
other tool.  And since we're talking about the iSeries, whose primary
strength is TCO, then I think you have to consider tools that also
provide a low TCO, and I believe PSC/400 is just such a tool.


Joe Pluta
President
Pluta Brothers Design, Inc.
www.plutabrothers.com