Re: WDSCI-L Digest, Vol 14, Issue 76

On Feb 18, 2016, at 5:52 AM, wdsci-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

Send WDSCI-L mailing list submissions to
wdsci-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/wdsci-l
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
wdsci-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx

You can reach the person managing the list at
wdsci-l-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxx

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of WDSCI-L digest..."


*** NOTE: When replying to this digest message, PLEASE remove all text unrelated to your reply and change the subject line so it is meaningful.

Today's Topics:

1. Re: Resistance to using RDi (Roger Harman)
2. Re: Resistance to using RDi (Jon Everton)
3. Re: Resistance to using RDi (Booth Martin)
4. Re: Resistance to using RDi (Paul Bailey)
5. Re: Resistance to using RDi (Booth Martin)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

message: 1
date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 00:22:19 +0000
from: Roger Harman <roger.harman@xxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Resistance to using RDi

Oh, I empathize with you.

"Why should I learn something new? RPG is dead. This new stuff just slows me down."

My boss did make it a part of their performance goals for 2016 to do at least one program from scratch in RDi (and, hopefully, free format).

I did a presentation on CL structured op-codes and subroutines a few months ago. Just saw one modified CL that someone actually put in a subroutine. Almost fell out of my chair. In a couple of weeks I will be doing a free format RPG presentation. That should be fun.

Jon.... I know you've mentioned that approach before. Sure wish I could do that. Would be a very entertaining day.

Roger Harman
COMMON Certified Application Developer - ILE RPG on IBM i on Power




________________________________________
From: WDSCI-L <wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Buck Calabro <kc2hiz@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 3:57 PM
To: wdsci-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Resistance to using RDi

On 2/17/2016 5:10 PM, Jon Paris wrote:
Another approach that I?ve seen used to good effect several times is to simply remove the offending programmers authority to SEU. They get used to RDi very quickly!

On Feb 17, 2016, at 4:39 PM, Jon Everton <joneverton@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

An easy way to get developers using RDi is creating the source files where
SRCDTA is greater than 240 bytes. SEU throws a severity 40 EDT0303 message
and they can't open it. They might as well get used to it with IBM opening
up the first 5 bytes and removing the 80 byte limit. Unless IBM changes it's
other mind, SEU is as dead as DDS.

I don't know how I'd feel about management dictating my choice of
editor. A previous boss wanted to force the team into RDi, and I
actively argued against that. Should I re-evaluate my thinking?

Is there a real-life example of rolling out RDi to a team who must be
forced to use it? My notion of success is that they become almost
immediately enamoured of RDi and constantly walk past my desk to shower
me with adulation for finally bringing them to the promised land.

Here's what I think would happen. My colleagues don't have RDi
installed, or if they do, it's WDSC 5.0. Which they tried for ten
minutes. Once.
1) Schedule the time for the PC to be available for an hour
2) I install RDi + fixpack
3) I configure RDi; connexion, filter, not much
4) Claudia comes back from lunch and tries SEU (should I break PDM too?)
5) Bad words because SEU is broken. Switches to RDi window (which I've
cleverly left open)
6) My phone rings. How do I edit a member, I just want to edit a member
I don't want all this drill down crap, I just want to... Oh, Ctrl-Alt-Q, OK
7) My phone rings. I want to copy a line, all I want to do is copy a
line. Why do I have to backtab a hundred times to get to the sequence
number? No, I don't want to use a mouse, I never used a mouse before
why should I use a mouse now? Alt-L? How many special key combinations
do I need to remember? OK I wrote that down, now what? Ctrl-C? Oh
brother, like Word? Why can't I just use Word it'll be easier than all
this. OK.
8) My phone rings. I have all these sqiggly lines all over everything,
how do I get rid of that crap? Well of course I'm in the middle of
editing, I am changing the lines and every time I type one character and
down arrow all these pink lines and red squiggles come up. Why can't it
wait until I hit enter like it always did? Do you know how slow it's
going to be to change one entire line and the go to the next, and the
next? If I survive the epilepsy this thing is giving me.
9) My phone rings. All I want to do is compile this. There are a pile
of useless icons, I click Compile and I get a dropdown which gives me a
dropdown and I have to choose one of what 10 options? This is nuts why
can't I just compile? Ctrl-Shift-C? OK
10) My phone rings. How do I test my program now that it's compiled.
At least I think it's compiled. How do I see the spooled file? Green
screen? All this crap so I can go use a green screen? Host connection
emulator? Who called it that? Right click on what now? Forget this,
I'll start Client Access.

My descent into Dante's First Circle of Hell has begun, and so passes
the first hour. Of the rest of my life.

This hopefully entertaining tale is not entirely a figment of my
slightly eccentric imagination. To this day, years later, I am still
the subject of scorn as That Weirdo who claimed WDSC is better than SEU,
haha what a freak.

--
--buck

Visit wiki.midrange.com and register for an account. Edit a page that
helps you, and because it's public, you'll help someone else, too!

--
This is the Rational Developer for IBM i / Websphere Development Studio Client for System i & iSeries (WDSCI-L) mailing list
To post a message email: WDSCI-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/wdsci-l
or email: WDSCI-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
at http://archive.midrange.com/wdsci-l.

------------------------------

message: 2
date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 20:31:59 -0700
from: "Jon Everton" <joneverton@xxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Resistance to using RDi

Buck, I see your frustration, but we work in a technology industry. If you
have associates that are not willing to embrace technology they should be
put out to pasture. When IBM discontinues support for DDS and SEU they need
to see the writing on the wall and get on board.

My 2 cents,
jon

date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 18:57:09 -0500
from: Buck Calabro <kc2hiz@xxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Resistance to using RDi

I don't know how I'd feel about management dictating my choice of editor. A
previous boss wanted to force the team into RDi, and I actively argued
against that. Should I re-evaluate my thinking?

Is there a real-life example of rolling out RDi to a team who must be forced
to use it? My notion of success is that they become almost immediately
enamoured of RDi and constantly walk past my desk to shower me with
adulation for finally bringing them to the promised land.

Here's what I think would happen. My colleagues don't have RDi installed,
or if they do, it's WDSC 5.0. Which they tried for ten minutes. Once.
1) Schedule the time for the PC to be available for an hour
2) I install RDi + fixpack
3) I configure RDi; connexion, filter, not much
4) Claudia comes back from lunch and tries SEU (should I break PDM too?)
5) Bad words because SEU is broken. Switches to RDi window (which I've
cleverly left open)
6) My phone rings. How do I edit a member, I just want to edit a member I
don't want all this drill down crap, I just want to... Oh, Ctrl-Alt-Q, OK
7) My phone rings. I want to copy a line, all I want to do is copy a line.
Why do I have to backtab a hundred times to get to the sequence number? No,
I don't want to use a mouse, I never used a mouse before why should I use a
mouse now? Alt-L? How many special key combinations do I need to remember?
OK I wrote that down, now what? Ctrl-C? Oh brother, like Word? Why can't
I just use Word it'll be easier than all this. OK.
8) My phone rings. I have all these sqiggly lines all over everything, how
do I get rid of that crap? Well of course I'm in the middle of editing, I
am changing the lines and every time I type one character and down arrow all
these pink lines and red squiggles come up. Why can't it wait until I hit
enter like it always did? Do you know how slow it's going to be to change
one entire line and the go to the next, and the next? If I survive the
epilepsy this thing is giving me.
9) My phone rings. All I want to do is compile this. There are a pile of
useless icons, I click Compile and I get a dropdown which gives me a
dropdown and I have to choose one of what 10 options? This is nuts why
can't I just compile? Ctrl-Shift-C? OK
10) My phone rings. How do I test my program now that it's compiled.
At least I think it's compiled. How do I see the spooled file? Green
screen? All this crap so I can go use a green screen? Host connection
emulator? Who called it that? Right click on what now? Forget this, I'll
start Client Access.

My descent into Dante's First Circle of Hell has begun, and so passes the
first hour. Of the rest of my life.

This hopefully entertaining tale is not entirely a figment of my slightly
eccentric imagination. To this day, years later, I am still the subject of
scorn as That Weirdo who claimed WDSC is better than SEU, haha what a freak.

--
--buck


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



------------------------------

message: 3
date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 23:04:23 -0600
from: Booth Martin <booth@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Resistance to using RDi

I can be slow to embrace new stuff. I still know where my OS/2 disks are.

I use RDi regularly and love it, even though I probably use/understand
less than half the features. For instance, the debugger still throws me
for a loop.

Having said that, I am trying to remember the features that made me stay
with RDi, and the features that I would miss if required to use SEU/PDM.

-One is that I can work offline.
-Another is that I can group a project all together.
-Also I can work on the same program in two different areas at the same
time.
-Having a search/replace feature that is versatile, fast, and clear is a
real bonus.
-Expand/collapse lists so that in one left hand pane I have clickable
access to, probably, 500 source members over several machines. All
searchable with a few clicks.
-The editor itself is leagues ahead of PDM.
-The error list from compiles is a real winner for me. Click an error
to take yo to the place of the error, fix it, have the error checked off.
-Verify-as-you-go editing points out a lot of my typos.
-The really big deal, for me at least, is Ctrl-z.

I believe that focusing on those few items will convince most
programmers to give RDi a shot.

date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 18:57:09 -0500
from: Buck Calabro <kc2hiz@xxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Resistance to using RDi

...My notion of success is that they become almost immediately

enamoured of RDi and constantly walk past my desk to shower me with
adulation for finally bringing them to the promised land.
...
--
--buck

------------------------------

message: 4
date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 09:40:16 +0000
from: Paul Bailey <PaulBailey@xxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Resistance to using RDi

I have two colleagues that started computer programming with punch cards, passing through s/36, s/38, as/400 and so on. They have had a (professional) lifetime of changes and now they just want to do what they feel comfortable with. I respect the knowledge and skills of both, and they are just as capable and efficient as I am, so there is no way I can do any more than encourage them to use RDi (and maybe show off the nicer features every now and then.)

If IBM ever remove SEU/PDM from use then things will have to change, but until then we'll work as an SEU/PDM compatible team.


-----Original Message-----
From: WDSCI-L [mailto:wdsci-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jon Everton
Sent: 18 February 2016 03:32
To: wdsci-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Resistance to using RDi

Buck, I see your frustration, but we work in a technology industry. If you have associates that are not willing to embrace technology they should be put out to pasture. When IBM discontinues support for DDS and SEU they need to see the writing on the wall and get on board.

My 2 cents,
jon

date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 18:57:09 -0500
from: Buck Calabro <kc2hiz@xxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Resistance to using RDi

I don't know how I'd feel about management dictating my choice of editor. A previous boss wanted to force the team into RDi, and I actively argued against that. Should I re-evaluate my thinking?

Is there a real-life example of rolling out RDi to a team who must be forced to use it? My notion of success is that they become almost immediately enamoured of RDi and constantly walk past my desk to shower me with adulation for finally bringing them to the promised land.

Here's what I think would happen. My colleagues don't have RDi installed, or if they do, it's WDSC 5.0. Which they tried for ten minutes. Once.
1) Schedule the time for the PC to be available for an hour
2) I install RDi + fixpack
3) I configure RDi; connexion, filter, not much
4) Claudia comes back from lunch and tries SEU (should I break PDM too?)
5) Bad words because SEU is broken. Switches to RDi window (which I've cleverly left open)
6) My phone rings. How do I edit a member, I just want to edit a member I don't want all this drill down crap, I just want to... Oh, Ctrl-Alt-Q, OK
7) My phone rings. I want to copy a line, all I want to do is copy a line.
Why do I have to backtab a hundred times to get to the sequence number? No, I don't want to use a mouse, I never used a mouse before why should I use a mouse now? Alt-L? How many special key combinations do I need to remember?
OK I wrote that down, now what? Ctrl-C? Oh brother, like Word? Why can't I just use Word it'll be easier than all this. OK.
8) My phone rings. I have all these sqiggly lines all over everything, how do I get rid of that crap? Well of course I'm in the middle of editing, I am changing the lines and every time I type one character and down arrow all these pink lines and red squiggles come up. Why can't it wait until I hit enter like it always did? Do you know how slow it's going to be to change one entire line and the go to the next, and the next? If I survive the epilepsy this thing is giving me.
9) My phone rings. All I want to do is compile this. There are a pile of useless icons, I click Compile and I get a dropdown which gives me a dropdown and I have to choose one of what 10 options? This is nuts why can't I just compile? Ctrl-Shift-C? OK
10) My phone rings. How do I test my program now that it's compiled.
At least I think it's compiled. How do I see the spooled file? Green screen? All this crap so I can go use a green screen? Host connection emulator? Who called it that? Right click on what now? Forget this, I'll start Client Access.

My descent into Dante's First Circle of Hell has begun, and so passes the first hour. Of the rest of my life.

This hopefully entertaining tale is not entirely a figment of my slightly eccentric imagination. To this day, years later, I am still the subject of scorn as That Weirdo who claimed WDSC is better than SEU, haha what a freak.

--
--buck


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

--
This is the Rational Developer for IBM i / Websphere Development Studio Client for System i & iSeries (WDSCI-L) mailing list To post a message email: WDSCI-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/wdsci-l
or email: WDSCI-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at http://archive.midrange.com/wdsci-l.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Important This email transmission and any files with it are strictly confidential to the intended recipient and may be legally privileged. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of BHSF. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not copy, disclose or distribute its contents in any way.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete the email from your system. We have taken steps to ensure this email and attachments are free from any virus but do not accept any responsibility once this e-mail has been transmitted. You should scan any attachments for viruses. No contract may be concluded on behalf of BHSF Group Limited or its subsidiary companies by email.
Registered Office: BHSF Group Limited, Gamgee House, 2 Darnley Road, Birmingham B16 8TE. Registered in England number 04767689. BHSF is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and Prudential Regulation Authority.

This email has been scanned for email related threats and delivered safely by Mimecast. For more information please visit https://www.mimecast.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

message: 5
date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 03:50:39 -0600
from: Booth Martin <booth@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: [WDSCI-L] Resistance to using RDi

Just to be clear: I started with punch cards, went to a Sys/2, Mod 6,
and so on. RD1 is a graceful fit. C, CC, CR, CCR, D, DD, and all the
rest of the stuff works just fine.

Still, I understand their fear.

On 2/18/2016 3:40 AM, Paul Bailey wrote:
I have two colleagues that started computer programming with punch cards, passing through s/36, s/38, as/400 and so on. They have had a (professional) lifetime of changes and now they just want to do what they feel comfortable with. I respect the knowledge and skills of both, and they are just as capable and efficient as I am, so there is no way I can do any more than encourage them to use RDi (and maybe show off the nicer features every now and then.)

If IBM ever remove SEU/PDM from use then things will have to change, but until then we'll work as an SEU/PDM compatible team.

------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

--
This is the Rational Developer for IBM i / Websphere Development Studio Client for System i & iSeries (WDSCI-L) digest list
To post a message email: WDSCI-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/wdsci-l
or email: WDSCI-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
at http://archive.midrange.com/wdsci-l.


------------------------------

End of WDSCI-L Digest, Vol 14, Issue 76
***************************************