RE: Another V5R2 question -- SYSTEM21

Juan,

It's hard to imagine that a vendor would code embedded SQL so poorly that 
throughout their package EVERYTHING would perform poorly - I'm not saying it's 
impossible, but you'd think a reputable vendor would have tested the code under 
varying workloads to be sure they'd coded it most efficiently.

That said, is it possible that the poor performance is the result of the need 
for some permanent access paths?  That is, have you looked at some of the more 
common selections and order bys that the statements do and tried to build 
access paths to emulate them.  That technique can improve SQL performance 
because the system doesn't have to build access paths in some cases - and that 
could save a LOT of time.

There are a couple of companies I'm aware of that make software that will help 
you analyze and assess SQL performance including suggesting access paths to 
improve performance.  This is not an endorsement of these companies - we don't 
use the products - but I've seen demos of them and it's interesting what they 
can tell you, and that might quickly resolve some or all of the DW SQL 
problems.  The companies are MB Software and Centerfield Technology.  Both have 
websites you can visit for more information.  There are probably other 
companies, too - again, these are just two I've seen demos of.

==Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: system21-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:system21-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of MLemon@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 1:03 PM
To: system21@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [SYSTEM21] Another V5R2 question


Juan,

I'm curious to know what GEAC is charging you for new auth codes?

We are planning on a v5r2 upgrade/hardware upgrade as this summer and will
need to get new auth codes.

Initial talks with GEAC indicate that they would charge us about $10,000.00
U.S. for auth codes.  (We are not currently under maintenance with them)

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Juan Doe [mailto:juandoe_2001@xxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 6:27 AM
To: System 21 Users
Subject: RE: [SYSTEM21] Another V5R2 question


Thanks very much :-)

I checked if the programs were used and they weren't
so I've ignored them too! Everything seems to be
running okay.

>From the performance side, I am happy to say the
system is generally running as good as before (which
wasn't the case when we tried to upgrade last year) so
the PTF's have obviously sorted a lot of things out.

Unfortunately our Data Warehousing module is still a
disaster. This module has some really heavy use of
imbedded SQL, far more than anything in System21. The
overnight job for example, is taking minimum twice as
long to run :-( The imbedded SQL is poorly written and
can be streamlined for performance, which is yet
another job for me. 
As a company, we are not in a position to upgrade
machine right now - we priced some options up, but
GEAC also wanted their pound of flesh just to issue
new Auth.Codes because of a new Serial No.s and we
have had to put things on hold.

I'm not sure that an OS upgrade (which you are forced
to take as they withdraw support for the old version)
that means you have to rewrite large chunks of code is
a "step forward", but I suppose for shops who are
lucky enough to be playing with the latest technology,
V5R2 is a must.

Juan



--- "Brunk, Kevin" <KBrunk@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Juan,
> 
> When we upgraded from V4R5 to V5R2 in November, we
> only had three S21 pgms that wouldn't convert and I
> believe it was due to observability.  We are on
> version 3.5.0b of S21.  From looking at the "last
> used date" information, it appeared that they were
> never used, so I ignored them and we've not had a
> problem.  If these ARE used in your shop, you might
> want to check with GEAC - I would think they could
> give you modules updated for V5R2.
> 
> With regard to performance, my first guess was that
> you hadn't converted your data libraries (files are converted, too).  
> But since you mentioned that in the first paragraph, you must have.  
> SQL might very well be the culprit.  In doing some reading this
> weekend about SQL cursors, I learned that the less
> specific you are about the use of the cursor, the
> more resource SQL brings to handle all variations. 
> So, the more specific you are, the more opportunity
> there is for SQL to be more efficient in the
> resources it chooses.  If the vendor's software is
> using a "lazy" approach to SQL coding, it could be
> causing the degradation.  I would think your
> warehousing module vendor should be able to help you
> optimize the software for V5R2.  V5R2 also includes
> (through Ops Nav) some tools to help investigate SQL
> performance issues.
> 
> We only noticed a slight degradation post V5R2, but
> within two weeks, we had converted from our 730 to
> an 825, and all our performance problems disappeared
> after that!  The 825 is a screamer. We partitioned
> it and moved our development system into a partition
> on it and now the development system is even light
> years faster - our testing users are delighted.
> 
> ==Kevin
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: system21-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx 
> [mailto:system21-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Juan Doe
> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 8:12 AM
> To: System 21 Users
> Subject: [SYSTEM21] Another V5R2 question
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> we are currently upgrading our test box to V5R2 and
> during the Object Conversion, a lot of System21
> programs are failing to convert. I believe this is
> because Observability was removed from the program
> before being delivered by JBA. Some of the programs
> we
> have the source for, but the ones in the IPGxxxxx
> libraries did not come with source code.
> 
> I guess you people already at V5R2 must have
> encountered this as well - so can anyone advise how
> you got around this issue please.
> 
> Another quickie - we tried going to V5R2 about 10
> months ago, but encountered a big performance
> degradation, mainly noticeable on a non System21
> module we have for data warehousing. This has a lot
> of
> imbedded SQL and as the whole SQL engine was changed
> in this release, our decision was to hold off until
> IBM had released their usual lengthy batch of PTF's.
> 
> For anyone who has recently gone to V5R2 - did you
> notice any significant performance reduction?
> 
> Many Thanks for any help...
> 
> 
> Juan
> 
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CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:  The information transmitted in this message is 
intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain 
confidential and/or privileged material.  Any review, retransmission, 
dissemination or other use of this information by persons or entities other 
than the intended recipient is prohibited.  If you received this in error, 
please contact the sender and destroy all copies of this document.  Thank you.  
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