[SYS21] Re: Minimum Number of Users -- SYSTEM21

I love JBAs argument that if you are upgrading your processor, you must be
doing better.  Didn't they ever think you have to upgrade your processor
because their inefficient code runs so slow?
Art Heffner
PTS  

-----Original Message-----
From: Angus Appleby [mailto:aappleby@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:51 AM
To: GEAC/JBA System 21 Users
Subject: [SYS21] Re: Minimum Number of Users


Yes, another great JBA scam!

When I was at my previous company, we wanted to upgrade to a 720 machine 
to make use of the faster processor for the web serving elements of the 
AS/400, nothing at all to do with JBA, or increase in business, or 
additional throughput. We had the "minimum no of users" clause in the 
contract which stated that we had to buy something ridiculous like about 
another 50 users, even though we already had what we wanted at 35. After 
about 6 months wrangling and much unpleasantness, we agreed to buy 5 
additional users at our original purchase price (plus maintenance).

JBA argued that the clause was in there as they assumed that if you were 
upgrading your processor, you must be doing better, so they should be 
entitled to a share! 

The whole thing left a very sour taste, and the first thing I checked when 
I moved to my new company, was for this clause in our contract. We run a 
model 720 here also, with 45 users, and no sign of a minimum, even though 
the contract was signed at approximately the same time as my last company.

All in all, I don't believe there are any agreed standards, its purely 
down to the individual salesman and contract agreed at that time. I 
certainly don't envy anyone caught up in this. 

Angus






"Watkins, Rick" <rwatkins@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: jbausers-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
07/03/2003 15:18
Please respond to GEAC/JBA System 21 Users

 
        To:     "'JBAUSERS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx'" <JBAUSERS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
        cc: 
        Subject:        [SYS21] Minimum Number of Users


Minimum (?) number of users.
 
Although this subject has been discussed before I would like to resurrect
it. 
 
In reviewing the past thread, there appears to be a number of
inconsistencies in representations made by JBA (Geac) to users.  For
instance Hitachi was told that the minimum number of users for a 720 was 
170
- recently we were told in writing that the number was 127.  This would 
lead
one to look at the processor not the model number.  In our case we 
purchased
150 licenses for a 510 P30 (processor), moved to a 720 P20 and incurred no
phantom upcharge, then moved to an 820 and back up to the P30 processor 
(our
original level) and are now being told that we need 39 more licenses. (we
own 150 and only use about 120).  We were also told at the time of sale 
that
there would be no tier based pricing - only per user pricing (naturally 
that
salesperson is long gone).  What we weren't told is that Geac would be the
one to tell us the minimum number of users we have in our facilities.
 
Also in the past thread it was stated by some customers that they were 
given
a schedule of AS400 models and the minimum number of users.  Did everyone
receive this schedule?  Does any outside agency play a part in determining
the minimum user number or is Geac free to do whatever they please? 
Doesn't
this practice seem counter- productive to their partnership with IBM since
it discourages hardware upgrades?  By the way, we were chastised for not
purchasing our upgraded hardware through Geac and the implication was made
that if we had, this upcharge could have been avoided.  How?
 
I cannot understand how we are required to buy something for which we have
no use.  And it goes without saying, that this larger number of users will
be used to determine annual maintenance costs ad infinitum.  It would 
appear
that Geac wants to drive users to dropping maintenance. 
 
If anyone can shed light on this usurious practice please do so.  If 
anyone
else has an 820 P30 machine I would appreciate knowing have many minimum
users you were required to have licenses for.   I think this will be a 
nice
discussion topic during the Q & A at Mr. Quinn's Alliance presentation.
 
 
Rick Watkins 
Director of BPR
RJF International Company
 
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