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  2. RPG400-L
  3. July 2014

RE: What would you do without RPG?

OK, nobody does 100%. But other databases are not necessarily "far
behind".

The structure of iSeries tables and indexes is fundamentally different
coming from much older access methods. This has allowed IBM more time to
improve the index management side of things, but does not eliminate the
need for optimization. Nor does it necessarily mean that the overall DB
structure is more sophisticated.

Those of us with memories going back far enough to remember the AS/400 as
the Silverlake/38 will remember that it was originally marketed as not
needing the type of systems staff that was required for mainframes. And
this is largely true, however I have had to reorganize tables (which
rebuilds indexes) and other system tasks over the years. And yes, I have
added logical files (indexes) at the suggestion of the query optimizer.
Almost like a DBA would.

The iSeries is a great platform with unmatched stability. But I resist
the push to claim it superior to all other platforms in all circumstances.
And DB2 for the I could really use some of the features provided by other
databases.

Cheers,
Steve


-----Original Message-----
From: RPG400-L [mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Birgitta Hauser
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 8:43 AM
To: 'RPG programming on the IBM i (AS/400 and iSeries)'
Subject: AW: What would you do without RPG?

What databases cover 100%?
AFAIK there is not a single one which covers the SQL 2011 standard for 100
%.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards

Birgitta Hauser

"Shoot for the moon, even if you miss, you'll land among the stars." (Les
Brown)
"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." (Derek Bok) "What is
worse than training your staff and losing them? Not training them and
keeping them!"

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: RPG400-L [mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von Steve
Stevens
Gesendet: Thursday, 31.7 2014 14:02
An: 'RPG programming on the IBM i (AS/400 and iSeries)'
Betreff: RE: What would you do without RPG?

You make an interesting argument that DB2 cover "almost 100% of the SQL
standard" while other databases that cover 100% and provide other
features as well are somehow "far behind".

You also left out the part of my post about upsetting DB2 diehards. Which
apparently it did.


-----Original Message-----
From: RPG400-L [mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Birgitta Hauser
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 1:33 AM
To: 'RPG programming on the IBM i (AS/400 and iSeries)'
Subject: AW: What would you do without RPG?

In addition DB2 SQL implementation limited.
DB2 for i covers almost 100% of the SQL standard, while other databases
are far behind, even ORACLE.
That does not mean that other databases do not include features that are
nice to have. Those database manufacturers need sales arguments.

No update from joined data
Add an instead of trigger to your view and voilà joined views or views
including CTEs are updatable.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards

Birgitta Hauser

"Shoot for the moon, even if you miss, you'll land among the stars." (Les
Brown)
"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." (Derek Bok) "What is
worse than training your staff and losing them? Not training them and
keeping them!"


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: RPG400-L [mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von Steve
Stevens
Gesendet: Wednesday, 30.7 2014 19:53
An: 'RPG programming on the IBM i (AS/400 and iSeries)'
Betreff: RE: What would you do without RPG?

It's going to grind all the iSeries diehards, but I would tend to agree.
In addition DB2 SQL implementation limited. No update from joined data,
no update from a CTE, the idea is to force SQL back into the iterative
structure of RPG. If we omit the things that make SQL set based then
DBA's don't have much to do.

That said, I will take the scraps that IBM throws us. It's still better
than reading file A, then chain to file B, then chain to file
C................that got old somewhere around 1992.



-----Original Message-----
From: RPG400-L [mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Michael
Ryan
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 1:35 PM
To: RPG programming on the IBM i (AS/400 and iSeries)
Subject: Re: What would you do without RPG?

I would think it's because the majority of RPG shops don't use a database.
They use indexed files, but not a database. No referential integrity, no
triggers, no cascading deletes. CHAINs and SETLLs and such. You don't need
a DBA for that, do you?


On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 1:24 PM, Mark Murphy/STAR BASE Consulting Inc. <
mmurphy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

While that sounds reasonable, if true, it begs the question: Why are
there so many Oracle and MS SQL Server DBA's, and so few IBM I DBA's?
It's not that Oracle and SQL Server do more work, and I doubt that IT
directors in those shops are just looking for people to give money to.

Mark Murphy
STAR BASE Consulting, Inc.
mmurphy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


-----Steve Richter <stephenrichter@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: -----
To: "RPG programming on the IBM i (AS/400 and iSeries)" <
rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Steve Richter <stephenrichter@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: 07/19/2014 05:59PM
Subject: Re: What would you do without RPG?

On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 11:50 AM, Birgitta Hauser
<Hauser@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

SAP on i:
Sometimes ago in an SQL Workshop someone told me they formerly
worked
with
SAP on a pSeries and an Oracle database.
He also told me as long as they worked with the ORACLE database
there
were
everyday 3 DBAs who did nothing else than balance indexes and adjust
buffers etc.


that has to be make work, no? There must be code an ORACLE admin can
run that automates whatever it is that has to be done to keep the
database functioning.

-Steve
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