RE: Re: Indicating Total Time in Free Form when using RPG Cycle

I have always presumed that one of the MOST important objectives I must have as a developer is to write MAINTAINABLE code. This presumes that I will not necessarily be the one maintaining it.

To me, the most obvious flaw of cycle coding is that parts of the core business logic are obscured from the developer. It's all well and good if the maintenance programmer following you just knows all about the cycle, because then they can glean the content of business logic. Not so much for the "modern" developers, who expect to see looping and level-break structures explicitly coded.

Is it really so much trouble to define (with specificity) the looping conditions? I suspect it would take me longer to figure out the cycle solution, than to just code the logic in a obvious and maintainable way. I already have some generic procs to handle level breaks. Can't think of any reason to depend on MR logic, with SQL alternatives...

JMO,
-Eric DeLong

-----Original Message-----
From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of dpcmarion@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 11:25 AM
To: Michael Ryan; RPG programming on the IBM i (AS/400 and iSeries)
Subject: Re: Re: Indicating Total Time in Free Form when using RPG Cycle

Why set up an air compressor and all the pneumatic tools when a simple
flat head screwdriver is all that is needed to fix the problem. If the
language supports it and it does the job, We shouldnt limit our toolbox.
Use the language... Don't make it use us.

------ Original Message ------

From : Michael Ryan<michaelrtr@xxxxxxxxx>
To : RPG programming on the IBM i (AS/400 and iSeries);
Sent : 1/25/2013 07:40
Subject : Re: Indicating Total Time in Free Form when using RPG Cycle


And that's the reason to *not* use the cycle. RPG isn't just a unit record
language anymore. The cycle is just a trick. You can do everything you want
in RPG without the cycle. And by not using the cycle, you open up the i to
any programmer - not just graybeards. I started writing in RPG over 30
years ago...I certainly used the cycle. I used to be expert in MR and
control break logic (IMNSHO). But I don't see the need to use it anymore -
not with NOMAIN and ILE and free format RPG. Should I know it? In my
position, most certainly. Do I need to have a new programmer that's writing
new code learn the cycle? Maybe not. But...we as a community don't embrace
change much, so there's that.


On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Paul Therrien <ptherrien@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:

Agreed.

Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Raul A. Jager W.
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 7:37 AM
To: RPG programming on the IBM i (AS/400 and iSeries)
Subject: Re: Indicating Total Time in Free Form when using RPG Cycle

The cycle can play nasty tricks, like when you forget to seton LR or have
the last return before the "on-error" of a monitor group.
You do not need to fully understand it, be you better know it is there!!

Paul Therrien wrote:

You do not need to understand matching records or the cycle to use RPGLE.

For a new person coming to RPGLE the attitude of " you can't really call
yourself an RPG programmer" is not encouraging.

We need to encourage new people, not discourage them.


Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Anderson, Kurt
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 3:06 PM
To: RPG programming on the IBM i (AS/400 and iSeries)
Subject: RE: Indicating Total Time in Free Form when using RPG Cycle

Jerry, your comment appears to come without any respect whatsoever.

Somehow you attribute a real RPG programmer as one who uses (or has used)
old methodologies. I honestly don't judge if someone is going to use
matching records indicators. I know we have a couple programs that do, and
we pretty much leave them alone. Do I claim to understand them? No.
Every time I work with them (that is, virtually never), I have to research
what's going on. Anyway, I just had to respond. Being unable to call
yourself a RPG programmer based on a completely arbitrary method of coding
is ridiculous.

-Kurt

-----Original Message-----
From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jerry C. Adams
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 2:55 PM
To: 'RPG programming on the IBM i (AS/400 and iSeries)'
Subject: RE: Indicating Total Time in Free Form when using RPG Cycle

Nancy, with all due respect, if you don't know "matching records," you

can't really call yourself an RPG programmer. I'm not sayinf you have to
have used them, but a real "Cycle" programmer knows matching records (even
if they don't use them properly).

Jerry C. Adams
IBM i Programmer/Analyst
History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree
upon, -Napoleon
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Home Office: 615-832-2730
email: midrange@xxxxxxxx


-----Original Message-----
From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of newnancy@xxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 8:54 AM
To: rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Indicating Total Time in Free Form when using RPG Cycle

They claimed that you can only test an indicator, such as *IN01 or *INLR,

in an IF statement. (*in01 IFNE or IFEQ or IFGT etc 01 or ON). Any
variable, including a counter or a field of a record, can be tested.

The System 36 and 38 is a little before my time. SO are matching records.


Thank you,
Nancy
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