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Hi Folks,

Nathan
Steven, Your (mis) perceptions about cloud services are a lot like my (mis) perceptions about the Internet way back in 1996. That year I worked for a company that gave me a project to develop an on-line banking application for customers, and we "concluded" that the Internet and web browsers were too "insecure" for them. So we ended up writing our own Windows client, which became obsolete the moment we released it. A costly mistake on our part. It turned out that a browser interface was the only realistic choice for that type of application, and that type of user. I was clueless, but I learned a lesson that dramatically changed the way I would later approach questions about emerging technology. I may not remember much from college, but one thing that stuck was that if you take a system with a failure rate of 5 per 1,000 and you back it up with another system with a failure rate of 5 per 1,000, you end up with a failure rate of 25 per 1,000,000. That's what cloud data centers do.

Steven
Really, you are only talking about backup here,

And the systems have to be independent in your failure rate. (e.g. Two onsite backups are not secure, since a fire, explosion or theft to one will likely effect the other. Thus the probability numbers are not as in your calcs. This is one reason why you should have cloud backup. Unless you daily have a disciplined method to take the backup physically off-site, some distance away.)

Returning to the key issue. If the cloud is down, and you do not have a puter onsight, you are immediately dead in the water. The backup people could rush you the backup by overnight mail, but you don't have a puter to put the backup in. Kaput.

One major solar flare, one major EMP problem, your business can go out.

Nathan
They are much more fault tolerant. They get bandwidth from something like 5 separate suppliers so that if one goes down they immediately switch to another. Very few businesses can afford the level of redundancy that goes into most cloud data centers. A year ago, I too would have questioned the stability of these data centers, and questioned whether our applications and data would be secure there. But since that time I've had an opportunity to tour a few facilities and concluded that they understand the requirements of business, are more qualified to meet them than the vast majority of IT organizations, and are willing and able to meet them. There is plenty of room to facilitate different clients with different requirements, and various arrangements can be made through tailored agreements. You might even own the server, and just plug it into their racks. But I think it makes more sense to lease a partition on a shared server or similar arrangement.

Steven
Again, this is all dependent on the internet being up. Remember, you have no in-house alternative.

Nathan
As far as the quality of applications that might be deployed as a cloud service, that depends. As far as I'm concerned, that might be up to you, because you could be doing the work yourself, or defining your requirements for someone else.

Steven
I'll accept that specific apps could duplicate in the cloud the functionality, with the same code. It is generic cloud apps that have not been so good.

Nathan
If you have concerns about an Internet connection going down at your location, then you might arrange for redundancy there too. In our area we have options for phone, cable, and satellite connections.

Steven
Phone does not sound like it will run a business. Cable is reasonable, since it is a direct physical connection, say to a data center 10 miles away. Satellite is problematic. My point is simple, a smart exec of a complex business that needs full up-time will not make the business dependent on non-physical connections. They should have a puter onsite. Or at least, a direct cable connection available to a local system uptime, one that will run the business. It should be tested as if the business depended on it.

Steven
> I would be curious as to the de minimis level (OS, language, data)
> etc. of HTML reporting. In other words, does it require DB2 and external data ?

Nathan
I think most of our applications would run on 5.2 or higher. But I think all of our customers are on 5.4 or higher. We use an API to generate HTML stream files, but I suppose that a data source could be just about anything. I thought that you were NOT using externally defined files (no DDS no SQL DDL); That you were using only input specs in all your programs. But some of the dialog in this thread made me question that?

Steven
QS36F flat files, internally described is all I am using. If there was a need to go to DB2, I could do that. I would prefer not to go to DB2, because of the loss of lots of very fine OCL, but if needed to be done, it would not be too bad. And I definitely do not want to go to RPG-ILE, unless the reasons were super-compelling, because of all the work in externally describing screens.

Remember, though, that I can make up a data dictionary spec -- F&I --> IDDU --> DDS easily. And similarly I could input to a special SQL-style data dictionary. No relational, referential, integrity stuff involved, simply ISAM.

Nathan
All of the code generators, reporting, database maintenance, inquiry, and dashboard utilities that I'm aware of in the "modernization" space require externally defined files (DDS, at least). But I'm not fully aware of every option.

Steven
DDS source is easy to create, for flat QS36F data. If the situation where the utilities read only the operating system compiled DDS ... that is more involved (although I could fake it out with dummy files, as long as the data is pointed to in QS36F). Anyway, my experience so far is that most utilities are savvy.

If they are iSeries utilities (Lansa, NGS, etc) they addressed this years ago, and they really do not care if it is QS36F or DB2. Lansa I think has you enter their data dictionary, a bit of hand-work, while NGS reads the DDS or some other source member.

If they are ported stuff, SQL-based, then you have to check utility-by-utility. There can be problems. They may read the OS that only defines the file as one big field, (based on BLDFILE or File-name,Disp-new, and the key field as a divider. They would have had to develop an alternative, and may never have bothered.

If the HTML reporting only reads a DDS source member, sitting in QDDSSRC, then I would simply put one there.

Steven Spencer
Queesn, NY


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