RE: RPGV? -- RPG400-L

I admit that I had never heard the term "namespaces" prior to this thread. So I did a search. Most of the references I found dealt with XML and a few with Java script neither of which (correct me if I err) is OO.

But that's not my point. If I interpreted the sources correctly (again, corrections welcome), qualified data structures are a namespace. Beyond that what is meant by namespaces in RPG? I.e., are we talking about qualifying the field names by file/table name, such as FILEA:FIELDA, FILEB:FIELDA, with a "Qualified" keyword on the F-spec? Or something else/more? Why is this such a hot button?

Thanks.

Jerry C. Adams
IBM System i Programmer/Analyst
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-----Original Message-----
From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bryce Martin
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 1:53 PM
To: RPG programming on the IBM i / System i
Subject: RE: RPGV?

Namespaces are a component of OO implementation at one of the highest
levels of the organizing structure.

Thanks
Bryce Martin
Programmer/Analyst I
570-546-4777

john e <jacobus1968@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
01/12/2010 02:37 PM
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RPG programming on the IBM i / System i <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

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Subject
RE: RPGV?

But the fact remains that if you introduce namespaces it opens > up the

doors to OO in RPG.
The fact is that namespaces and OO are two separate concepts.

To: rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: RPGV?
From: BMartin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 11:50:22 -0500

You are right, javascript is fully OO without classes.... but it still

has

namespacing. You can implement OO as classes/inheritance or
prototype/clonging, both are in practice today with classes being FAR

prevelant. But the fact remains that if you introduce namespaces it

opens

up the doors to OO in RPG. That is my point and no matter how pedantic
you get on language semantics it doesn't change the fact.

Thanks
Bryce Martin
Programmer/Analyst I
570-546-4777

john e <jacobus1968@xxxxxxxxxxx>
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01/12/2010 10:24 AM
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RPG programming on the IBM i / System i <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

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Subject
RE: RPGV?

Granted, actual "classes" won't exist in the language, and you won't

get

inheritance.

Also, "classes" and "inheritance" also have nothing (well ok, someting

not essential) to do with OO.
Just concepts implemented in many OO languages.

Javascript i.e. is fully OO, but has no classes and (therefore) no
inheritance.

Yes, i'm in a pedantic mood today

To: rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
CC: rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx; rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: RPGV?
From: BMartin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 09:51:35 -0500

But Namespaces are indeed an OO concept. That is what you encapsulate

your Classes in. In java this is known as a Package. By introducing
namespaces you begin to flirt with the idea of offering more and more

features into the language. You can simulate a class using a data
structures and procedures. Offer overloading of procedure names and

this

really starts to take some shape.

Granted, actual "classes" won't exist in the language, and you won't

get

inheritance. But if you offered Interfaces as someone else suggested

its

just another piece of the OO pie.

Thanks
Bryce Martin
Programmer/Analyst I
570-546-4777

john e <jacobus1968@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
01/12/2010 09:12 AM
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RPG programming on the IBM i / System i <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

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Subject
RE: RPGV?

Namespaces / overloading has nothing to do with OO.
OO is all about encapsulation.
You don't encapsulate anything with namespaces/overloading.

OORPG... please

First try to make the current version of RPG a bit more sane...

And why bother, i never encountered an RPG programmer who even heard

about

terms like "encapsulation" or even "variable scoping", let alone use

it.

To: rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: RPGV?
From: BMartin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 08:40:59 -0500

So you want RPG to go OO?

This is essentially what you'll get if you allow procedure

overloading

and

namespaces. At least you'll have almost all the language construct

to

make it happen. Coming from C/C++ in all my time in highschool and
college and then learning Java as well I'm quite fond of OO and

really

miss it, so it wouldn't be so bad for me :D

I'm just wondering how the RPG lifers feel about this. Without a
background in an OO language I would think many RPGers would be a

bit

lost

with Namespaces and Procedure overloading... just as most have

bucked

the

idea of Modules/Service Progams. I'm not saying it shouldn't be

done.

I

very much support it, but I just hope everyone realizes that it'll

another one of those 30% adoption situations again (or whatever the

case

is for service programs).

Thanks
Bryce Martin
Programmer/Analyst I
570-546-4777

Larry Ducie <larry_ducie@xxxxxxxxxxx>
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01/12/2010 06:34 AM
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Re: RPGV?

Hi Hans,

My two cents on this:

The DCL keyword: This would make my RPG look like CL. That alone

would

kill it for me.
Comma vs Colon: Only a proctologist would really care.
Calc Spec V: Already free so we just lose the /free and /end-free

and

make

it compulsory.

At this point in time I really don't think I would want my $100

spent

on

freeing RPG. It is functionality I want, not lipstick.

I would spend my money on:

1) Overloading sub-procedures ($75)
This is an obvious need and is well overdue.

2) Namespaces for Service Programs and Modules ($20)
I would like to have a NAMESPACE keyword (H-spec) for a SRVPGM or

MODULE

and then qualify a procedure with that namespace. This would allow

to

reference two service programs that export a similarly named

subprocedure

and not have conflicts.

For example, two SRVPGMS export a getName procedure. This conflict

solved with the following two lines:
NAMESPACE(MYSRVPGM1 : 'Contact')
NAMESPACE(MYSRVPGM2 : 'Customer')

I could then have:

contactName = Contact::GetName(parm);
customerName = Customer::GetName(parm);

We REALLY need this. We use so many SRVPGMS and it just gets harder

and

harder to keep procedure names unique across our SRVPGMs. We simply
shouldn't have to.

3) Ability to put a Binding Directory into another Binding Directory

($5)

We have lots of Service Programs, and we generate quite complex
inter-dependencies. For our prototype copybooks we can copy our

prototypes

into other copybooks to form new (more complex) copybooks.

Unfortunately,

we can't do the same with our Binding Directories. This is a real

pain.

Example:
A Person 'object' is implemented in three SRVPGMS. Each has its own
copybook and Binding Direcory. To include the Person objects in a

program

we use a /include of the PERSON copybook (which includes a /include

the

three SRVPGM copybooks). We also reference the PERSON Binding

Directory.

This doesn't reference the theee original Binding Directories

(because

it

can't) so it has to list the three SRVPGM objects again. If we split

one

of the original SRVPGMS into two we would have issues. The copybook

easy because we reference the two new copybooks in the original and

all

copybooks built on it would get the new values. However, ALL of the
Binding Directories that list the original SRVPGM have to be found

and

amended. This could be solved by simply amending the original

Binding

Directory to include a refenrece to the two new Binding Directories

and

letting all references filter through. Just want to keep it

consistent.

Hope that all makes sense, and Happy New Year!

Cheers

Larry Ducie

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