Hey Larry,
I admit, I overshot that just a bit with the namespaces/overloading and
OO. They would still be key aspects to making RPGIV a successful OO
language. My 30% number came from my own shop. There are 3 of us and I'm
the only one who uses modules/service programs regularly. I'm hoping that
by using the most advanced parts of the language the other guys will
gradually start to use it as well. They'll at least have to understand it
if they want to maintain any of my code :D
Your shop is a rare one from all I have heard. To have a company that
supports its programmers (maybe you guys are a isv?) in the ways you
describe is refreshing to hear. All companies should have these types of
things implemented, but it seems that for most places that if it isn't
"broke" don't fix it. There isn't enough forward technological thinking
in most shops from the people that "count".
Technology changes extremely quickly, even in the midrange world. I have
been a programmer on the i for almost 3 years now. And when I hear about
the timeline of when things were added to the language and when things
were introduced it dawns on me that most of these language features I use
have been around only about 5 to 12 years with most being in this
millenium. When I first started I would have thought that this platform
had been around since 1960 from the way people talk and the general aura
of the platform. But I have come to realize that most of the systems we
use are less than 20 years old. Our ERP system is about 11 years old.
That doesn't seem to old to me, in fact it seems that things SHOULD be
mature and stable, but not outdated. Anyway, I'm not sure where I'm going
with this last paragraph execpt to say that it hurts to see programmers
get such little support and to put so little into themselves and their
careers considering the value that they provide their employers, even the
mediocre ones.
Thanks
Bryce Martin
Programmer/Analyst I
570-546-4777
Larry Ducie <larry_ducie@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
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Re: RPGV?
Hi Bryce,
<snip>
So you want RPG
to go OO?
This is essentially what you'll get if you allow procedure overloading and
namespaces.
</snip>
Really? So if we overload procedures in RPG and include namespaces then
RPG is essentially now an OO language? Really..? If only it was that
simple. :-)
The use of namespaces does not necessarily make a language an OO language,
even if they are a feature of many OO languages. All OO languages also
make use of variables. Does that make variables a feature of OO languages
too? XML uses namespaces and we could successfully argue that XML isn't
even a programming language, never mind an OO programming language. I do
get your point though. :-)
Anybody interested can take a look at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namespace and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namespace_(computer_science) for more info on
namespaces.
<snip>
I'm just wondering how the RPG lifers feel about this. Without a
background in an OO language I would think many RPGers would be a bit lost
with Namespaces and Procedure overloading... just as most have bucked the
idea of Modules/Service Progams. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done. I
very much support it, but I just hope everyone realizes that it'll be
another one of those 30% adoption situations again (or whatever the case
is for service programs).
</snip>
Frankly, I don't care what RPG lifers who don't use Modules/Service
Programs feel about this. I particularly need namespaces in RPG to allow
me to do my job more effectively. But remember, I am suggesting the use of
a H-spec keyword that essentially qualifies the procedure names. This
would be optional so the RPG lifers who don't use the new stuff aren't
affected. If they do use namespaces, it is nothing more difficult to
understand than qualified data structures.
Regarding the other posts about percentage use/relevance of these
features: I agree that RPG programmers are their own worst enemy. I would
also agrue that we as a community do not keep up to date with current
trends. But this is not the case for all of us...
We have 25+ RPG developers in our shop. ALL of them use RPG IV in free
format. ALL of them use service programs and modules. ALL of them use
sub-procedures. ALL of them code in RDi 7.5 (we have SEU disabled). ALL of
them are enrolled in a program of continual professional improvement. We
allocate 2 weeks per developer per year exclusively to professional
development. I am really proud of the way our guys are improving. Better
yet, the more they learn the more they want to learn. We code to standards
here - not to the lowest common denominator. This means our developers
have to learn quickly to keep up with the pack. Sub-procedures are a BIG
part of our standard so we invest the time and effort to keep ALL of our
developers up to speed. As our developers improve we raise the bar and
keep them improving. For example, I am spending this week providing
in-house workshops on SQL DDL and SQL DML. We see SQL as a key skill and
are investing the time to train our guys. This makes us!
as a group better placed to make good decisions when
designing/developing.
We also test our developers and allow them the opportunity to study/train
for the ILE RPG Certification Exam. One of my Graduate Trainees joined us
in November 2007 straight from University with no RPG knowledge. He sat
the Certification Exam in September 2009 (?) and passed well. He has been
working in RPG for less than 2 years and is already an asset to the
company. I am extremely proud of him, and as a prize we gave him an
all-expenses trip to the RPG and DB2 summit in Minneapolis (thanks guys -
he loved it!). We are based in Brisbane in Australia so it was a big trip
for him. He got to stay over in LA, and that is a pretty cool prize for a
22 year old to get from his employer. :-)
Anyway...
We as a shop are committed to use the latest and greatest. I want IBM to
continue to enhance RPG for us. Every developer in my shop is using the
most recent offerings, and we will continue to use them as long as IBM
provide them.
Cheers
Larry Ducie
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