RE: /FREE RPG compiler errors -- RPG400-L

Gary,

Lots of good points but some are misdirected.

>>Don't readers want the trade press to include in their wares, information
on newer things? 

Sure, on other platforms, you can install the new software release and be
done with it. You can install a new version of the OS or the compiler and it
will work. Or you can usually install just he new release of the compiler
and take advantage of it. Fewer people to interact with, get permission or
buy-in from, and fewer to approve the purchase.

But with OS/400 you have to consider Umpteen variables and if we're talking
about something like += (which I like and encouraged IBM to do) you have to
wait until the end of this year before many shops will even have the OS
installed to use it. So, by definition this is not stuff you can "take home
and used today". 

On the issue of the semi colon, my issue isn't with it on each line, but
rather it is required on every line. The difference in my mind being that it
is required on the IF, ELSE, FOR, etc. statements. This is not intuitive to
me.  I don't care about it being on the EVAL, CHAIN, etc. statements, it
makes sense to have a terminator. I guess I have not used a language that
required it on the conditional statement before.

>>The attitude that it's a bother to read "stuff" speaks volumes to my point
about the fact that it's ultimately the individual who is to blame for their
lack of growth.

Maybe we're on the same page here, but maybe not. I'm not sure. My point was
that (speaking as an RPG programmer working for an employer) I have a
family, life outside work that probably doesn't have much to do with IT, can
use a PC pretty well, but don't live for it, and don't give a rats butt
about the latest and greatest. Why? Because I bar-b-que on the weekends
rather than read books on Java, or ActiveX controls.

So yes, you are correct, it is the individual who needs to take
responsibility for their learning and growth. However, it is there choice,
not yours or mine, as to what their growth is. I don't see many people
growing towards stuff that won't be available to them for as much as a year
since they can't use it today. They'd rather say screw it, and fix something
using the language in which it is written, and to buy the bratwursts for the
grill.  And there's nothing wrong with that. 

Now, I do think we need to figure out a way to encourage AS/400 IT shops to
use more contemporary techniques, but not everything that happens along. The
other thing we have got to do is get IBM to break the marriage between the
compiler and the operating system. That last issue along with the continued
use of SEU is killing the development market for the AS/400 and iSeries more
than anything else, in my opinion.

Bob Cozzi



-----Original Message-----
From: rpg400-l-bounces@midrange.com [mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@midrange.com]
On Behalf Of Gary Guthrie
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 6:08 PM
To: RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: Re: /FREE RPG compiler errors


Hi Bob,

Comments in line...


> Why the apparent vilifying of RPG developers?


I'm not defaming RPG developers. If you check, I think you'll see that I
have a long history not only with RPG, but also with defending the RPG
development community in the face of criticism.

My comments are directed at notions that are out of step with reality. 


> In most shops the programs don't get the choose whether or not they 
> use RPGIII, RPGIV or the /FREE stuff.


And, I sympathize with those who find themselves in this situation. But, I
can't get beyond the idea that they are themselves responsible for their own
fate. They have choice. They can expend effort to educate decision makers
and influence them to use such things as RPG IV and free-format RPG. And,
they also have the ultimate choice to leave a particular place of employ if
that's what it takes.

Before you guys get started on these comments, I realize that such uprooting
might not be the easiest thing to do, but such is life.


> If the shops would spend the money to train their staffs on new stuff, 
> the staffs would move.


I'm bothered by statements like this and the last one that put everything on
the employer. Don't get me wrong, I think plenty employers are likely not
the quintessential employer, but... 

While it might be true that if shops pushed staff, staff would move, this
statement is just another in a long line of ill-founded excuses. It's the
individuals responsibility to learn. And, they can learn much for little or
no cost.


> But largely that is not happening in mass. _One_ of the probems as I 
> see it is that IBM and the trade press seem to be to tired of the 
> "old" stuff that they permaturely jump on the new stuff and write 
> articles and talk about it, often even before it is shipped. This only 
> does two things in my mind; illustrates that even IBM doesn't like the 
> stuff they put out, and two are so bored with stuff that just works, 
> that they are introducing new stuff that doesn't work--today.


I can't speak for IBM, but I can speak for the trade press. I've seen your
comments before that (paraphrased) article writers are the only people using
things like free-format RPG. Well, that's simply not true. Though yet in the
minority, there are many shops using free-format RPG. Pardon me for saying
so, Bob, but your comment that the trade press prematurely jumps on new
stuff is a wee-bit silly, don't you think? Do you think readership would be
better served by a trade press that was in the business of writing history
books? Don't readers want the trade press to include in their wares,
information on newer things? 

 
> Several developers that I've worked with don't have the time to bother 
> reading stuff about something that _may_ ship in 6 months or a year, 
> because it'll be at least 12 to 24 months before they system is 
> updated with that future stuff.


The attitude that it's a bother to read "stuff" speaks volumes to my point
about the fact that it's ultimately the individual who is to blame for their
lack of growth.


> Problem with /FREE include the need to place a semi colon at the end 
> of EVERY statement.


This is another of those comments I've seen you make before. Come on Bob,
how difficult is that to do or to remember? If you prefer a different
technique for ending statements, that's fine, but to lament the fact that
the compiler writers chose the semi-colon method is a bit much. It's no big
deal. It's just another piece of litter on the pile of ill-founded excuses.

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