Re: PTF apply philosophies

V7R1 TR8 released today.
How long would you wait till applying to a production LPAR.
Will take an IPL, I'm sure.

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
rob@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 9:00 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: RE: PTF apply philosophies

They stay there. Hence the recommendation to apply permanently.
You've never taken over maintenance on a machine that's been under someone
else's care only to find PTF save files from 2.1 and more? I'm surprised.


Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1
Group Dekko
Dept 1600
Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com





From: Pete Massiello - ML <pmassiello-ml@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 06/06/2014 07:54 AM
Subject: RE: PTF apply philosophies
Sent by: "MIDRANGE-L" <midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx>



Rob,

I always apply PTFs permanently before an OS Upgrade as
well, but I always apply PTFs perm after they have been on the system for
a while. Basically before I put the next cumulative on, I apply
everything permanently. This is especially important for the MF PTFs on
57xx-999, as it means that what is currently on the B side (of LIC), now
is on the A side. So, if applying new 57xx-999 PTFs from the cume (which
will always have new MF PTFs) and you put on a bad MF PTF which prevents
you from IPLing, you could just IPL from the A side which would be the LIC
(License Internal Code) that you were running right before the update.

I have never seen PTFs *SAVF remain after an upgrade, but
then again I always apply my PTFs perm as that is the right way to do it.
So, I can't say that those objects would remain.

Pete



--
Pete Massiello
iTech Solutions
http://www.itechsol.com
http://www.iInTheCloud.com




-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
rob@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 7:37 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: RE: PTF apply philosophyies

There are pros, and cons, to permanently applying PTFs. General rule of
thumb is to permanently apply all PTF's before an OS upgrade. Failure to
do so will leave many orphan objects on your system for all eternity. For
example, let's say ptf SI12345 fixes program QSOMETHING. When you put on
ptf SI12345 IBM backs up the original program QSOMETHING into a save file
and leaves it on your system. This way, if you remove that ptf, it can
restore it from that save file. When you permanently apply SI12345 it
deletes the save file containing the original QSOMETHING. If you've ever
watched your IPL during a PTF apply and saw "5000 objects processed"
during the apply of one ptf, you start to realize how significant these
ptf save files can be.

The main con is, if you want to back one PTF off. It gets to be rather
tough, if it's permanently applied. Normally not something you do if
you've been running that PTF for a few months.

The exception that proves the rule is Domino. I never permanently apply
PTF's to Domino unless I am getting ready to remove that version of
Domino. It is quite often that I have to remove one fix to apply another.

Therefore a Domino shop should probably avoid the APYPTF LICPGM(*ALL)
approach. Do them one by one.

Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1 Group Dekko Dept 1600 Mail
to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com





From: "Bakutis, Becky" <BBakutis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 06/05/2014 06:42 PM
Subject: RE: PTF apply philosophyies
Sent by: "MIDRANGE-L" <midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx>



"Generally I do like load and run Temp and SAVE 22. Run for perhaps 2 or
3 months. Then perm apply all and SAVE 22. Then repeat as necessary."

This brings up a question I have and am interested in what others do.
Currently immediately before applying a new CUME I apply the 5770999 PTFs
permanently. Someone asked if maybe we should apply all PTFs permanently
prior to applying a CUME. Is there a reason to apply all other than
having a base level of PTFs?


-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
DrFranken
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 5:05 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: PTF apply philosophyies

I do a LOT of PTFs and spoken to many of the fine folks at IBM re PTFs and

the process.

First off it has been stated that MANY PTFs simply require an IPL. The
objects being replaced simply cannot be updated at any other time as they
are always in use or otherwise locked. A claim of 90% of PTFs can be
applied immediately doesn't align with what I see. I suppose it's possible

in fact but with all the pre and co requisite PTFs all it takes is one PTF

in the 'set' to require an IPL and the other PTFs are stuck so effectively

all the PTFs require an IPL.

I have heard several times that using *IMMDLY (Immediate if possible,
Delayed to IPL when mandatory) Is NOT recommended for any PTF Groups
including CUMEs. It's essentially impossible to read every cover letter
and deal with all the special instructions. Failure to follow the special
instructions can mean many things, not the least of which is that many of
the PTFs that APPEAR to be applied are not active until an action is
taken, frequently the action is to IPL (which I find annoying!)

I do concur with other comments that if you are not provided sufficient
time for backups, PTFs, and other maintenance then having an HA system is
near mandatory. Clearly NOT doing PTFs and proper saves is just a system
crash looking for a bad time to occur. If time is so short when you DO get

a window that any problems push you into being considered an outage that
also is 'living on the edge'. Also consider making your load source disk
an SSD, this will 'enhance PTF apply performance.'

Generally I do like load and run Temp and SAVE 22. Run for perhaps 2 or
3 months. Then perm apply all and SAVE 22. Then repeat as necessary.

- Larry "DrFranken" Bolhuis

www.frankeni.com
www.iDevCloud.com
www.iInTheCloud.com

On 6/4/2014 11:56 AM, Steinmetz, Paul wrote:

Management would like to minimize the IPL, PTF, and system save

downtimes.

HA/DR Is out of the question.
Currently, I try to IPL Production every 2 months for PTF apply along

with a system save.

The IPL and system save will probably go to 6 months or as needed.
90% of PTFs can be applied immediately without an IPL, however IBM does

not recommend immediate apply for more than a single PTF.

Applying a large amount of PTFs immediately has caused issues in the

past.

Permission has been granted for the PTF immediate apply, but I'm weary

from previous issues.

Any thoughts from the group.

Thank You
_____
Paul Steinmetz
IBM i Systems Administrator

Pencor Services, Inc.
462 Delaware Ave
Palmerton Pa 18071

610-826-9117 work
610-826-9188 fax
610-349-0913 cell
610-377-6012 home

psteinmetz@xxxxxxxxxx
http://www.pencor.com/

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