Reviving zombie thread; preserving the entire exchange so that those
subscribing via email can remember what was happening.

The original thread apparently converged on the notion that SF99711 did
not download the very latest group PTFs. Dawn May (waves at Dawn!)
posted a blog wherein she quotes directly from the IBM i PTF team:

'This PTF group includes the latest level of all PTF groups for the
release except the Cumulative PTF Package group.' ...and... 'Since the
latest level of each PTF group is downloaded, SF99711 itself will rarely
be updated—only when a new PTF group is added for 7.1.'

This matches my experience exactly. I ordered 99711 in December and I
got all the PTF groups updated as of the date I placed that order. It
was not an archive of PTF groups as of August.

On 12/20/2013 12:16 PM, DrFranken wrote:
For this and other reasons already mentioned, I have not and do not
intend ever to order SF99711. Not saying it's not useful for some
situations but it's not what people think it is and that alone is
dangerous for many.

It "SOUNDS" like a distribution list concept that on the fly collects
all the stuff on the list and that's what you get. But it's not, its a
periodically collected group of other groups. And that dings it's value
for me.

- Larry "DrFranken" Bolhuis

On 12/20/2013 10:49 AM, Steinmetz, Paul wrote:
Kirk and Rob,

1) There may be some confusion with SF99711.

I reread all the threads, SF99711 details, (see below) , and results
of my actual SF99711 order experience.

SF99711 was last updated 8/9/13. Just because a new level for a group
is available does not mean that SF99711 will be updated.

SF99711 does actually order ALL of the latest group levels that are
currently included, as of 8/9/13. On 12/17, SF99709 Group Hyper,
Level 99 became available. My SNDPTFORD of SF99711 on 12/17 resulted
in SF99709 level 99 being downloaded, not installed. On 12/17 SF99709
contained only 1 PTF MF57761 which was downloaded, Savf file only status.

If a new group would come out, or if a group was removed, then SF99711
would be updated accordingly.

Description: This PTF group includes all PTF groups for the current

IBM i release except the Cumulative PTF Package PTF group. The PTF

groups are included by listing them as related PTF groups. Use

option 9 (Display related PTF groups) on the Work with PTF Groups

(WRKPTFGRP) command to display the included PTF groups.

Planned Update Schedule: Updates to this PTF group will occur if a

PTF group is added or removed for the current IBM i rel

2) The main reason I prefer SNDPTFORD is that it can be automated. You
can't do that that with fix central. I did request an automated
process for this.

I also requested SF99712, any PTF NOT part of group or cume. We know
this will probably not happen.

Both methods will fail, I've had bad experiences with each. Last week
while preparing the LPARs for the weekend IPL, I found some PTFs,
Specific Products and Functions, not part of any group, but part of
recommended fixes. I tried downloading via fix central, however, new
version of Java needed to be installed on my PC, well the Java install
failed, so couldn't order the PTFs via fix central.

I also had SNDPTFORD fail, twice in a row. Next order was successful.

For multiple LPARS, another option I experimented with is in
Navigator, Fixes, Compare and Update.


3) We all have are preferred PTF methods, and we are all always
looking for ways to improve the order process, get the PTFs ordered
with minimal time spent.

The most frustrating thing I've found is that shortly after an IPL to
apply MF PTFs, I discovere an MF PTF (that will need an IPL) that I
should have, not part of a group, not on hyper list etc.

My new approach for checking for new PTFs, PTF Cover Letters by Date.

I wish there was happy PTFing, I'm still searching.


-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of rob@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 7:21 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: RE: PTF SF99711


I know it's popular on this list to read a sentence or two and skip
the rest. Heck, we're all busy people. But you really need to read
Kirk's message in it's entirety.

When you order group SF99711 you do NOT get all of the latest group
PTF's!!! They RARELY update SF99711 and the only groups it contains
are the groups there were the latest at the time of the last regen of

It was last updated in August. Therefore it is several group levels
behind in hiper and much more.

Not just picking on any one person but I've seen so much skipping,
speed reading, dyslexia, etc that I'm starting to believe that I need to

- break up replies. One point per each reply. This will also allow
threading to break off, if necessary, on that point.

- Use lists as much as possible. People with dyslexia can handle a b
c much easier than: a, b, c

Rob Berendt


IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1 Group Dekko Dept 1600
Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive

Garrett, IN 46738

Ship to: Dock 108

6928N 400E

Kendallville, IN 46755

From: "Steinmetz, Paul"

To: "'Midrange-L'"

Date: 12/19/2013 05:01 PM

Subject: RE: PTF SF99711

Sent by:

1) I have scheduled jobs setup in AJS to auto order all groups every

other Tuesday. (Tuesday is the day the hyper group comes out)

I've had no issues with this, usually 5 to 10 minutes, some days may take

longer, I've seen up to 45 minutes.











2) I've had issues in the past when trying to install the HTTP groups

immediate. Even though most PTFs state immediate is OK, (emergency use

only) IBM recommended that ALL PTS should be applied with delayed at next

IPL, to avoid intermittent install and apply issues.



-----Original Message-----

midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx> [

mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kirk Goins

Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 4:44 PM

To: Midrange-L

Subject: PTF SF99711

May be this has been hashed out here before and I missed it but here
are a

couple of items I have run across.

First of all for my sites that have good bandwidth I like to use

to an Image Catalog. It is pretty much enter the cmd and forget. I come

back the next day and I have my image(s) and away I go. I will typically

order the CUME and then order the groups I want for that machine.

I have tried recently ( a couple of times ) to use SF99711 to pickup all

the groups I needed without having to specify each one.. I have had a

couple of issues.

#1 After the CUME and Groups have been applied and the system has

completed ALL the required IPLs most of not al the groups show Not

Installed in WRKPTFGRP. If I simply do a SNDPTFORD SF99711 and let it

download to *SERVICE it says No PTFs Ordered ( or whatever ) but

not shows the groups Installed.

A second issues I ran into today. I had used SF99711 within the last

couple of weeks, but while trying to use the HTTP Admin server to install

WAS855 I was having problems. Looking at the group levels my HTTP server

was at level 19. It should have been at 23 or even 24 if SF99711 had done

what it advertises.

In discussing this with IBM it turns out SF99711 doesn't automagically

the LATEST Group PTFs. It has to be updated by the PTF Gods at IBM to

Include whatever groups and whatever levels they want included iin the

group PTF..

*Per the current Cover Letter*

SF99711: 710 All PTF Groups except Cumulative PTF Package PTF Group

Level: 2 Last Updated: 8/9/13

So based on IBM Tech Support Comments and the date above. I would not

expect to see any PTFs added to groups since 8/9/13.

*Dear IBM.*

My hope when ordering SF99711 via SNDPTFORD or vis FixCentral and

accessing my system is that A. It would check my WRKPTFGRP makers and

order any that needed updating.

B. Decide if I had installed a new product and if there was a group PTF

for that product ( say WAS8.5 ) include that in my order.

Another side comment from support. They do not recommend using SNDPTFORD

for large PTF orders like CUMEs and GROUPs. They say they have more

with missing PTFs etc than by using Fix Central and then FTPing or using

Download Director.

Any Order with care.

This thread ...


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