Re: config for a low end 710 or 720-RDX

Do you pay maintenance on them like disk drives or treat them like tape
cartridges?


Rob Berendt
-- IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1 Group Dekko Dept 1600 Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive Garrett, IN 46738 Ship to: Dock 108 6928N 400E Kendallville, IN 46755 http://www.dekko.com From: Roberto José Etcheverry Romero <yggdrasil.raiker@xxxxxxxxx> To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, Date: 12/05/2012 11:18 PM Subject: Re: config for a low end 710 or 720-RDX Sent by: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx But, at the same time, does RDX have the same durability as tape? i mean, disks have lots of moving parts that could break, sectors that can start to fail, etc etc etc. and i doubt it has an integrated raid1 inside that shell... On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 1:04 AM, DrFranken <midrange@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> In theory never wear out as it's actually a hard disk drive. Nothing
> touches so there are no wear points.
>
> - DrF
>
> On 12/5/2012 10:51 PM, franz400 wrote:

>> I appreciate all the info.
>> What I have not been able to find is how often to save to RDX before
>> wearing out?
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "DrFranken"<midrange@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: "Midrange Systems Technical Discussion"<midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 8:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: config for a low end 710 or 720
>>
>>

>>> I'm not quite as concerned about the Optical vs Tape difference as

Pete

>>> is. I have one of these as well and while the commands are indeed
>>> different (INZOPT vs INZTAP for example) you can basically treat the
>>> drive in much the same way as a tape drive. IBM I has allowed SAVSYS

to

>>> DVD's for years as well as many other saves and RDX essentially works

as

>>> a very large very fast DVD. The drive is bootable and exceedingly

quick

>>> to get to any specific file. The drive is far cheaper than the LTO
>>> although media is a bit more expensive. On the low end systems I

think

>>> this is a very usable replacement for tape. It doesn't leave you a

way

>>> to migrate from older systems that much is true but over time I think
>>> the RDX will be a big player on the low end.
>>>
>>> - Larry "DrFranken" Bolhus
>>>
>>> On 12/5/2012 11:49 AM, Pete Massiello - ML wrote:

>>>> Jim,
>>>>
>>>> I was a beta site for both the USB& SATA RDX. You can use the SATA

with

>>>> 6.1 plus some PTFS as well. You are correct in stating the USB

requires

>>>> V7R1 w/TR5.
>>>>
>>>> There is certainly a cost difference between the LTO5 and the RDX,

but we

>>>> found the LTO5 to be more than twice as fast as well. Also, an LTO5

is

>>>> 4,000 list as an internal tape device. The SATA was also faster than

the

>>>> USB attached from our tests. I think this is a good low-end

technology,

>>>> but I would say it is NOT a straight tape replacement. The RDX is a
>>>> virtual optical, and you don't just use this as a tape drive

replacement.

>>>> To me, that is a problem for customers wanting to do an "easy" swap.

You

>>>> don't do an INZTAP against an RDX, you can't just do a SAVLIB to it,
>>>> without treating it as an optical device.
>>>>
>>>> While I really like the technology, I am concerned about the need to
>>>> treat this as an optical vs a tape.
>>>>
>>>> Pete
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Pete Massiello
>>>> iTech Solutions
>>>> http://www.itechsol.com
>>>> http://www.iInTheCloud.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jim Oberholtzer
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 7:40 AM
>>>> To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
>>>> Subject: Re: config for a low end 710 or 720
>>>>
>>>> I agree with Kirk, the 720. As many drives as you can stuff in there
>>>> (remember disk arm performance) with RAID6 and your almost as safe as
>>>> mirroring. I don't see any mention of LPAR but remember with a 720

4

>>>> way, you need to host the LPARs on IBM i or VIOS if you need them.

(Now

>>>> your using an HMC or LVM as well)
>>>>
>>>> I would have a real serious look at the internal RDX drive (the usb
>>>> attach I have works but it's slower) for back up. Looks and reacts

like

>>>> a DVD on massive steroids. I've done all manner of testing with it

and

>>>> it does well. Two concerns; first the cartridges are more expensive

than

>>>> tape, but because they are really 2.5 inch hard drives they don't

have

>>>> some of the drawbacks of tape either. The second is speed. They are

a

>>>> bit slower than LTO but if that's not an issue.....
>>>>
>>>> Now the real kicker. LTO5 internal on a 710/720 = $5000. RDX

internal =

>>>> (about, I have not seen final pricing) $700. You can buy a lot of

RDX

>>>> carts for that kind of money. RDX carts run from 360Gb to 1TB.
>>>>
>>>> V7 with TR5 is required for the RDX units. They have a USB unit that
>>>> plugs into any of the USB ports on the 720, sweet. As my customers

all

>>>> get to TR5 I'm using the RDX unit for PTF application etc. Avoids

using

>>>> the storage on the system and it's fast enough, particularly on

systems

>>>> with only a four drives, to make sense.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry if this sounded a bit like a commercial but the technology is
>>>> really cool, finally available to IBM i, and no one seems to be

talking

>>>> about it.
>>>>
>>>> Jim Oberholtzer
>>>> Chief Technical Architect
>>>> Agile Technology Architects
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/4/2012 9:07 PM, Kirk Goins wrote:

>>>>> Jim,
>>>>> Frankly from a performance point I do not like mirroring, maybe on

the

>>>>> 720 with the cache it may be fine. Day to day use OK, but PTFs,
>>>>> Upgrades etc I really like a 4 drive Raid set.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think you can get less than 8Gb these days and as long as

they

>>>>> don't want to run WebQuery, WebSphere etc then 8 will be fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tape if you can get then to spend the money then LTO is the way to

go.

>>>>> I have only sold 1 system with a DAT drive and it worked but

compared

>>>>> to LTO it took forever to do much of anything. the720's can have

the

>>>>> LTO5 internally and LTO4 media has gotten cheaper than 1/4inch

media.

>>>>>
>>>>> IBM will tell ya the 710 was designed for Linux/AIX and I am not

sure

>>>>> you can get a Deskside model
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 6:52 PM, franz400<franz400@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>

>>>>>>> Looking for recommendations (they already have the BP) for a

low

>>>>>>> end system, Replacing a couple Advanced 36 systems, one local,
>>>>>>> other will be remote via vpn.
>>>>>>> Will run programs in s36 mode, but hopefully they will add

newer

>>>>>>> features (email, advanced printing (pdf), some edi, light web
>>>>>>> hosting) Each system currently has 3 - 5 users each.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Considering the 8202 DAT tape drive - i see they now offer a

usb

>>>>>>> attach.
>>>>>>> 2- 146 Gig drives mirrored (maybe 4) - (is there a better

option?

>>>>>>> have occasional need for up to 80 gig useable) tower model

(under

>>>>>>> a desk)
>>>>>>> i7.1
>>>>>>> legacy dev tools
>>>>>>> sql development tool
>>>>>>> system i access
>>>>>>> (having trouble finding weblink of software products avail to
>>>>>>> review...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How much memory needed to drive system and up to 10 users and
>>>>>>> couple printers, with room to expand?
>>>>>>> How limiting is the entry 710 vs entry 720?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since it appears 1/4 inch cartridge tape not supported, am
>>>>>>> expecting to ftp the libraries from an intermediary (520) system.

Any

>>>>>>> other options?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Even though BP will answer these, I appreciate the experience

on

>>>>>>> this list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jim Franz
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --

>>>> --