Re: The Future

The problem I always see with training is that unless you have a reason to
use it you quickly forget it. Learning a new language is great if you return
and begin to use it but if you don't use it pretty much a waste of time.

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Jim Steil<jim@xxxxxxx> wrote:

John

While I agree with you that (in general) it is more costly to develop on
the i than it is on other platforms, I would say you do get something
for that additional cost. That is the stability/reliability of the i.
With that said, the stability/reliability of other platforms has been
getting better every year. There are many instances where I feel the
other platforms are 'good enough' for the task at hand, and this is
where other development technologies can be used. I happen to use
Python and don't understand why it isn't used by everyone. I have been
(and will continue to be) pestering Alison Butterill to get a supported
port of it on the i, but that's another topic altogether.

To the original poster I have a few thoughts. The first is that in the
current economic/business climate you have to consider yourself an
independent contract for a business even if you are a full-time
employee. You never know when your employment will end and need to be
prepared for the next opportunity which may or may not be an i shop.
Second, certifications don't help. I've run across many developers in
my day that were certified in all the right tools, but didn't know where
to start when designing/developing systems. Third, begin learning the
technologies used on other platforms, primarily (in this order);

MySQL - Free downloads and manuals at www.mysql.com. You'll need a
database on a home PC to play with.
SQL - You can get an SQL for Dummies book cheap. I buy them used for
colleagues learning SQL for under $5
HTML - Get a good editor that will show you visually what your
developing - I like HTMLPad - about $50
A scripting language - PHP would seem the natural choice but as said,
I'm a Python guy
CSS - http://www.csszengarden.com for all things css
Javascript - Learn the basics and then get into one of the frameworks,
Dojo, jquery, Sencha (extjs)

This isn't something you're going to knock off in a month or even a
year. What I've done in the past when learning things is to find
something you'd like to develop on your own and just start doing it.
Keep refactoring it over time as you learn new skills. It will take a
lot of motivation to get this done.

Caveat - these are just my opinions based on my experiences.

-Jim

On 9/16/2010 9:29 AM, john e wrote:

In my mind a "software developer" loves technology and wants to do cool

new things to make advances in technology itself, not just creating useful
things for thier customers.

Wrong.
A software developer is no hobbyist. It develops software in a cost

effective way. To earn more money, that is. That is something different.And
RPG is really not cost effective. The balls of mud i encounter in my career
is staggering.\So much dollars wasted, for something that barely works.No
industry where there is that kind of discrepancy, it's almost criminal. Well
thats my feeling enyway and i apologize right here for those people who feel
insulted.If i ask my manager to invest some more time in a solution you
sometimes get an answer like "we don't need a porsche, a volkswagen is ok".
I agree with that, but i was not talking about a porsche. I talked about a
volkswagen, which is cost effective. But implementing a solution "the fast
way" (and again and again) you get someting like a horse wagon, with two
horses in the front and one on the top, half as steering weel, a steam
engine thingy somewhere stuck away, etc. You get my drift. This is not "cost
affective". It "work!
s"!

(kinda), but thats the situation.

To: midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: The Future
From: BMartin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 09:11:50 -0400

Holiday Inn Express Dennis, Express! You obviously didn't stay in one
last night or you would have known 8-)

Anywho, coming from someone who is not defeated ..... ME, I would tend

to

agree with John on the most contentious point.... (remember, this is a
generalization, there are far more people programming in RPG for non
vendor companies than there are for vendor companies). This probably
doesn't apply to people programming RPG in a vendor shop, this applies
more to those programming in standard shops out in the field. I would
agree that most RPGers don't have the mentality of a "software

developer"

(each person has their own impression of this term). But I think that
this isn't because they "don't care", or as I've seen posted before
"lazy". Sometimes that is the case, but that is everywhere with any

job.

I think this goes a long way to the fact that most RPGers writing

business

code are in fact taking Specs and creating programs as management sees
fit. This isn't the fault of the programmer, they're doing their job.
Over time however you get worn down by decision makers saying... "No, do
it my way!" and after a while they can get so far behind the times that
they give up and just try to stick it out until retirement. They are
defeated.

Yet others I think are so busy doing their jobs, and possibly really
enjoying what they do, seeing people use the programs they made even if
they were someone else's idea. The person with the idea(request)

couldn't

do it, so the programmer gets a sense of satisfaction that they did

their

part. Eventually at some point they get curious about some new shiny

buzz

worthy thing and wonder what its all about. They do some research and
realize that they don't have the resources in their current job to check
it out or learn about it, but realize that it is valuable. This seems

to

be where Kelly is at.

Look, some people want to come to work, do their job, get their check

and

go home. They don't want to take work home with them, and don't really
care to use a computer at home much since they use one all day long. I
would agree that these people don't really fit the "software developer"
architype. In my mind a "software developer" loves technology and wants
to do cool new things to make advances in technology itself, not just
creating useful things for thier customers. Its about pushing the
envelope and a passion for what you do.

The fact that John just flat out suggests that Kelly is "too late to the
game" for wanting to learn new programming languages and techniques is
short sighted. And telling her to change careers all together, to me,
sounds very insulting and disrespectful. Kelly, keep your chin up, once
you start learning another language or two you will realize that

learning

more languages isn't very hard. The syntax from one to another can
sometimes be very similar and the same with techniques. In my first 3
years on the job I learned RPGLE, CL(if you consider it a language),
HTML/CSS, Javascript, Java, and PHP. Of course, you stay sharpest in

the

ones you use most, but once you learn the language and complete a fairly
significant project with it you'll always remember the nuances you

learned

and will be able to get back on that bike when needed.


Thanks
Bryce Martin
Programmer/Analyst I
570-546-4777



"Dennis Lovelady"<iseries@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
09/16/2010 08:16 AM
Please respond to
Midrange Systems Technical Discussion<midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>


To
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Subject
RE: The Future







DrFranken wrote:

I'm not a Doctor, but I play one on the computer.

I heard he also spent the night in a Holiday Inn at some point in his
past.

Dennis Lovelady
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dennislovelady
--
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good
example."
-- Mark Twain



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