That is precisely what this exercise is all about Eric, the entire
department is involved in helping determine what our standards should and
will be.
From: "DeLong, Eric" <EDeLong@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Midrange Systems Technical Discussion" <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 10/15/2008 12:09 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting question and debate on ddl tableswith
datefieldsthatwill not always have a value
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug,
No your example is fine, it's just that null does not necessarily
simplify ANYTHING in regard to business application logic. Whatever one
developer may do with null, another may do with control and status
fields. There is not a right way or wrong way here. Shop standards
should dictate what approach is to be used in your environment.
Eric DeLong
-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Doug Palme
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 11:19 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: RE: Interesting question and debate on ddl tableswith
datefieldsthatwill not always have a value
Apparently I used a horrible example.......that is not a file that
exists,
I was making it an example for the basis of my question....
From: "Paul Nelson" <nelsonp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'"
<midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 10/15/2008 11:04 AM
Subject: RE: Interesting question and debate on ddl tables with
datefieldsthatwill not always have a value
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A proper system would have a rehire date, as well as reason codes to
describe the termination. CYA, you know?
Paul Nelson
Office 512-392-2577
Cell 708-670-6978
nelsonp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
lgoodbar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 10:14 AM
To: midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Interesting question and debate on ddl tables with
datefieldsthatwill not always have a value
A good employee tracking system should have an employment status
flag.
"Obviously", one would check that flag rather than a null termination
date.
More relevant: what if the employee is rehired? Should the
termination
date be reset to null? The employee was actually terminated (or
perhaps
laid off) in the past, and setting a null value loses historical
data. A
decent system will have an employment history table; but most I've
seen
have standalone hire and term date fields as well.
Loyd Goodbar
Business Systems
BorgWarner Shared Services
662-473-5713
-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joe Pluta
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 5:16 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: Interesting question and debate on ddl tables with date
fieldsthatwill not always have a value
Walden H. Leverich wrote:
> Use nulls, that's what they're for!
>
I'm not picking on you specifically, Walden, because many people have
contributed to this thread, but yours is the most on-point statement.
Anyway, not everyone agrees with your blanket assessment of nulls -
including folks like Chris Date and even Dr. Codd himself. A null in
a
value (in this case, the termination date) could mean lots of things:
it
could mean that the employee is still working for us (meaning there
is
no termination date). But it could just as easily mean we don't know
what the termination date was, that the termination date we have is
invalid, or that the termination date hasn't been entered yet.
No, just about every database scientist whom I've read would insist
on a
flag that indicates the status of the employee rather than relying on
the NULL value to give you any more information than the fact that
you
don't have a termination date.
I won't belabor the point. I just want to make sure that the notion
of
databases that is currently in vogue today often differs dramatically
from the folks who actually came up with the concept. That's not to
say
that there is One True Database Design; Codd and Date actually
disagreed
on nulls. But neither one agreed with the SQL approach.
So anyway, while the general assessment on this list of the use of
nulls
is probably the most common one, that doesn't make it right. And it
certainly doesn't mean that RPG programmers who don't like nulls are
some sort of Luddites; indeed, it just means that they choose not to
use
a specific technique - one that has arguably been misused or at least
overused by an entire generation of SQL programmers.
Joe
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