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  3. July 2007

RE: Thin console capabilities (was Denying TCP connections basedon IP)

Two things to consider....

1) I don't believe the i5 is dependent on the Ops-Console being up. So if the
console goes down, it
doesn't impact production.
2) It's pretty easy to find another old PC lying around.

HTH,

Charles

-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Lukas Beeler
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 1:33 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: RE: Thin console capabilities (was Denying TCP
connections basedon IP)

Sorry. My fault.

I've just reread my mail, and it's absolutely not clear:
That paragraph was about the Operations Console, and Larry's
recommendation to use an old PC for it.

-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of rob@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 7:16 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: RE: Thin console capabilities (was Denying TCP
connections basedon IP)

What "Windows"? Not on HMC. Ever hear of Linux?

Rob Berendt
--
Group Dekko Services, LLC
Dept 01.073
PO Box 2000
Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com





"Lukas Beeler" <l.beeler@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
07/10/2007 12:48 PM
Please respond to
Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>


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"Midrange Systems Technical Discussion" <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
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Fax to

Subject
RE: Thin console capabilities (was Denying TCP connections basedon IP)






1800$ looks quite okay to me. I'll recheck this with our
sales/purchasing guy, but I think this stuff is much more
expensive here
in Europe.

(Example, a single disk unit (70GB, 15kRPM) retails here for
about 1400
US$).

The prices that I've had in mind were about 4000US$ for the
desktop, and
about 8000US$ for the rack mount HMC - with the 515 at about 13000US$
for the baseline version, that's quite an impact. Especially
if the only
advancement over the 1000US$ Thin Console is "remote management".

And I really don't think outsourcing the console of the system that's
usually most important for the Business (most people can live for some
short amounts without their mail and files - ERP is more important) to
an old, unreliable machine is a good idea.

And it adds maintenance work - you'll have to keep the windows machine
updated, make sure that the antivirus is up to date and
everything (you
can skip that if it is just connected to your System i - but then you
lose the remote access). Again, not a problem for a big company which
uses SMS, WSUS, central AV management - but many of our
customers don't
have that.

-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Larry Bolhuis
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 4:08 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: Thin console capabilities (was Denying TCP connections
basedon IP)

The HMC is /not/ only meant for Big Companies! Desktop and Deskside
units list at $1800 (Less than two disk units). Great for
connecting to
your own KVM. You must be looking at the rack mount version with the
rack mount keyboard and flat panel display which is north of $5000. I
agree that the windoze solution isn't great but since the
requirements
for the thing are pretty minimal (for the console part alone)
most of my

customers who use that have allocated an old W2K cast off machine to
that function which mitigates the cost significantly.

The TC is a good replacement for twinax but it is what it is
and it's as

cheap as it is because of that.

My System i customers include organizations as small as ones
who train
guide dogs for blind and deaf people. Many still run 170s and
others are

on 520s with only two disk units and base memory. Sure we have large
customers but by raw count they are but a small part of my business.
Unfortunately, I can count the number of Billion Dollar
customers that I

have on one hand without using most of my fingers!

- Larry

Lukas Beeler wrote:
The HMC is only meant for big companies, as it costs nearly
as much as
a
baseline 515 ;)

And Operations Console isn't that much of an option, it requires a
separate, full fledged PC that needs to be maintained etc.

The Thin Console is a good replacement for Twinax
terminals, and it's
what we use exclusively for our new system deployments.

I work for Small Businesses, not the multi billion dollar companies
you're used to. This means that "just buy a HMC", "just buy an
additional PC" are usually not really options. I would like to ship
every new system we sell with a HMC, believe me. But the cost is
prohibitively high.

Lukas Beeler wrote:

(I still think that the TC is a rather poorly done
product, since it
doesn't offer remote access).


If you want remote access the HMC is the way to go. Sure it's more
money

but it's got all that support built in that you need for that
including
security. It has the ability to restrict users to functions based on
job

role etc, to access ASMI, to share consoles for multiple
partition and

systems. Thin Console was brought to light for those customers who
just

simply couldn't live without a dedicated terminal based console.
Having
to add a twinax card for this is expensive and wastes two
slots (IOA
plus IOP) and locating a supply of good twinax terminals is getting
more

and more difficult these days! If you want remote console
access you
can also choose Operations console with either LAN or
direct connect.
Thus adding remote capability to Thin Console would serve only to
increase cost and complexity, it wouldn't provide anything
else that
doesn't already exist.

- Larry


--

Larry Bolhuis IBM Certified Advanced
Technical Expert
- System i Solutions
Vice President IBM Certified Systems Expert:
Arbor Solutions, Inc. System i Technical Design and
Implementation V5R4
1345 Monroe NW Suite 259 eServer i5 iSeries LPAR Technical
Solutions, V5R3
Grand Rapids, MI 49505 IBM Certified Specialist
System i Integration with
BladeCenter

and System x V1
(616) 451-2500 System i IT Simplification: Linux
Technical V5R4
(616) 451-2571 - Fax iSeries System Administrator for
OS/400 V5R3
(616) 260-4746 - Cell

If you can read this, thank a teacher....and since it's in English,
thank a soldier.

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