RE: Java vs .NET was: RPGIII compiler vs Visual Basic

Oh my, ok, well, just remember, I'm the .NET bigot... 

>What I would like to have is a debate on what is better, Java or .NET.

Doesn't matter, there the same, sorry. (Joe, you can get up off the
floor). At this point, the Java vs. .NET argument is a religious
argument, which is "better" Christianity or Judaism?

Java and .NET are both extremely capable development environments that
can and do deliver (today) enterprise quality production systems. Both
have gotten better over the past several years, and will get better for
many years to come. Both have their problems and have had their
dead-ends, but that's called progress. Sure, do I like .NET better, yup.
Do I think VS.Net makes WSDC look pathetic, yup. But I'm sure there are
Java-folk that can tell you how Java is better than .NET and WDSC's
plug-in model makes it the best IDE ever invented. Bottom line is, if
you have good Java people you can develop good Java apps, and if you
have good .NET people you can develop good .NET apps.

I have said for several years that in 5 years .NET will have 45% of the
world, and Java will have 45% of the world, and everything else will
have the remaining 10%. So, if you pick .NET or Java it doesn't matter,
but if you pick ColdFusion, PHP, Net.Data, etc, well, good luck
maintaining it.

>Are web services as easy to use in Java as they are in .NET?  

Yup, better be. If they're not someone will create a plugin to fix that
real fast. 

>In .NET the programmer only has to change the names of the 
>classes used in the program.

Actually, if you use the common base classes then you don't even have to
change the names of the classes, just the connection string and the
class-factory for the connection object (and that should be
"soft-coded") so I believe it's identical to Java.

>Why is PHP being chosen so frequently over Java when coding Linux
>based web sites?  That make me question Java a bit.

Because it's the flavor of the month. This is perhaps the one major
difference between the java world and the .NET world. In .NET we have
one centralized standards-setting, direction-setting behemoth, it's
called Microsoft. In the Java world there isn't one. Sun hasn't stepped
up and said "this is how it shall be", and I don't think that's the Java
model so they shouldn't. However, that results in a lot of thrashing,
and PHP is the latest example of that. 

You can see that in the iSeries world too. As great as the machine may
be you have to admit, it's an extremely small install-base relative to
Windows, good-bad-indifferent, you can't argue the numbers. So, why is
there a SINGLE "official" way to go to the web in the windows world
(ASP.NET) while there are so many in the iSeries world (JSP, WebFacing,
iSeries Access for Web, HATS, CGI, CGIDEV2, screen-scrapers, etc.)

-Walden

------------
Walden H Leverich III
Tech Software
(516) 627-3800 x11
WaldenL@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.TechSoftInc.com

Quiquid latine dictum sit altum viditur.
(Whatever is said in Latin seems profound.)
  


-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steve Richter
Sent: Sunday, 19 June, 2005 23:44
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Java vs .NET was: RPGIII compiler vs Visual Basic

On 6/18/05, Joe Pluta <joepluta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > From: Walden H. Leverich
> >
> > Um, ok, if you say so. Ever see the datacenter page?
> >
>
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overview/datacente
> > r.mspx
> 
> I have no intention of running 64-way Itanium servers that cost as
much
> or more than an iSeries.  I'm talking about servers that pass the
> "cheaper than an iSeries" test.
> 
> 
> > >And if it weren't for the monopolistic stranglehold Windows
> > >currently has, I'd recommend against it for security reasons alone.
> >
> > Name one, just one, properly configured Windows server 2003 box
that's
> > had a virus. MS can't. And you'll have to look long and hard for a
> > comprimized Windows 2003 server box, if it was properly configured.
> Has
> > the platform had its problems in the past, sure, but that doesn't
mean
> > it sucks today.
> 
> Dude, you really need to take a chill pill.  I was talking about
> desktops.  I have no use for Windows as a server. I think I've made
that
> clear.  As to "properly configured", what percentage of Windows
servers
> out there today are "properly configured", do you think?
> 
> 
> > >As for the APIs, the move from 16 to 32-bit was about as painful as
> you
> > could get.
> >
> > Actually not as painful as the move to 64-bit RISC if you didn't
have
> > observable programs.
> 
> Oh bull.  All you needed was the source, a quick recompile and you're
> done.  Walden, you are losing your credibility.  There was no parallel
> fix on Windows.

What percentage of s/34 and s/36 ran without mod on the as400?   Was
the percentage higher than that of DOS and Windows 3.1 programs that
run without mod on w2k?   There is also the as400 and s/38 code that
used non standard interfaces before the APIs were released.  A lot of
that code will not run on an as400 today.

> 
> > Well, ok, maybe that painful. And how painful is
> > the stupid 16Meg allocation limit we have on the iSeries? We're just
> now
> > getting reasonable terraspace-enabled support.
> 
> Who cares?  How often do you run up against teraspace limitations?  I
> have programmed for 30 years, and NEVER ONCE needed a teraspace
pointer.
> Straws, dude, you are grasping at straws.

I am working with some pop3 and smtp email classes  in .NET lately. 
Each mail message, no matter the size, can be stored in a single
contiguous string.  I was curious to know how large a string could be
- running code to test it,  I chickened out at 400 meg. The PC was
able to create a 400 million character unicode string, then copy the
string to another string, in about 30 seconds.

What I would like to have is a debate on what is better, Java or .NET.
 I think that is the important discussion to have.  What language
should Windows/AS400 shops use for the client side of their apps -
Java or .NET?

Are web services as easy to use in Java as they are in .NET?  In .NET
you run a MS program named wsdl.exe which takes the WSDL file of the
web service and outputs proxy class code used to call the web service.
 Using the proxy class code, calling the web service is a simple one
step process.

How does the .NET framework compare to its Java equivalent?   As an
example, there are Socket and other network classes which make network
programming pretty easy in .NET.  Dealing with different encoded
character sets is pretty easy also.

What is the degree of difficulty of using Java to work with a
database?  What does it take to switch from a MySQL database to
SQLServer or to the iSeries database?  In .NET the programmer only has
to change the names of the classes used in the program. SqlConnection
and SqlCommand for SQLServer, iDb2Connection and iDb2Command for
iSeries, MySqlConnection and MySqlCommand for MySQL.  Same thing in
Java?

Why is PHP being chosen so frequently over Java when coding Linux
based web sites?  That make me question Java a bit.   Also, I dont
like the idea of having two incompatible languages ( Java and PHP ), 3
if you include C/C++, being used at a typical Linux shop.   It is
great that the skills I am developing in ASP.NET are easily
transferable to desktop and even spreadsheet programming on Windows.

What language will a Java/iSeries shop use when it writes a
spreadsheet application?  First question - will the typical
java/iSeries shop also be using Excel spreadsheets on the desktop? 
Which means they will be using a .NET language to program the
spreadsheets?  If so, that makes another incompatible language used in
a Java/iSeries centered shop.

-Steve