Questions about UDB on the iSeries (my promised start of a response to those interested)

Gang,

Just as a frame of reference I've included the original question that
started the thread and my answer to John.  I've since found out that
John's company decided to go to Windoz, so for him this is all moot.  

**********************  Original question from John McKown 
**************************
from: "McKown, John" <john.mckown@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Question about UDB on iSeries

Please keep in mind that I know **ZERO** about the iSeries and UDB. We
are considering a conversion from z/OS on zSeries to i5OS on iSeries.
The company doing the presentation basically said that everything that
we need, with a few exceptions, is integrated into the i5OS on the
iSeries. In particular UBD is integrated (so we don't need to buy it).
But I was wondering if any iSeries people out there have an opinion
about the lack of requirement for any extra software to support UDB on
iSeries. Such as performance monitors, reorganization utilities,
anything at all? I'm confused (as usual) about why UDB on iSeries does
not require any such software while it appears, to me, that DB2 on z/OS
really requires a lot of extra cost software. This is the whole reason
that we are considering this conversion. z/OS simply requires too much
extra cost software compared to other platforms.
****************************** End of John McKown's question 
*******************************
****************************** Beginning of my response to him 
******************************
Well, I thought I'd through in my two cents worth since I've been
involved in the following areas of work using the real DB2 RDBMs built
for VM, VSE, and MVS, and the version called DB2/2 on the OS/2
operating
system, and the pseudo-DB2 on the iSeries as well as another highly
used
RDBMs, called Oracle:  System Programming, DBA, DA, consultant to
developers of applications using those RBDMS and Director of a
development shop creating multi-terabyte data warehouses using both
DB2/MVS and Oracle.  I even go back to the days of the S/38 and  S/34.



I don't say this to impress but I just didn't see any responses from
folks that have worked with DB2 in the mainframe environment nor other
mid-range industry-accepted RDBMs used on a wide scale, like Oracle. 
It
seems like most of the responses are from folks that are prejudiced to
the iSeries and perhaps have limited knowledge of the real DB2.  Don't
get me wrong, I think the iSeries is a find operating system and is
pretty rock solid, BUT the reality is, it and DB2 are not usually used
in the same environments and for the same types of applications and
reasons as the mainframe.  There are reasons why mainframe shops and
mid-range shops using RDMBs like DB2 and Oracle went with those
engines
and platforms and not with the iSeries.  If you understand that, you
can
understand why there are not many non-OEM tools for the iSeries vs.
the
mainframe and other mid-range boxes like those that run Oracle.   

In addition, most iSeries shops I know of, since they have been
influenced by Rochester and tend to move only in that environment and
have done so for decades, don't have an unbiased view of how different
the DB2/400 implementation is from the rest of IBM and why that is not
necessarily good.   And, from my point of view, it seems that most
iSeries shops that fool with DB2/400 do so from the traditional S/38,
AS/400 legacy point of view spoken about earlier and that is not a
wise
use of a resource.  IBM is also part of the problem because of the way
they implemented DB2 on the AS/400 because of the operating system
architecture.  One of the questions that should be answered is, "but
with all that, can DB2/400 be used wisely and in keeping with the
tenets
usually found in the rest of the RDBMs world and why is that important
to my business?"  That question should also peak the interest of the
legacy AS/400/iSeries technical folks as well especially if they see
their world shrinking relative to the expansion of other worlds that
use
RDBMs.  Let me know if you'd like to explore this further.  

Take care,

Dave    
*************************  End of my initial response
*************************************

************************* Part 1 of my response to other's questions
*******************************
************************* The first part of my answer that I'll expound
on *************************
'Don't get me wrong, I think the iSeries is a find operating system and
is pretty rock solid, BUT the reality is, it and DB2 are not usually
used in the same environments and for the same types of applications and
reasons as the mainframe.  There are reasons why mainframe shops and
mid-range shops using RDMBs like DB2 and Oracle went with those engines
and platforms and not with the iSeries.' 

First, let me say, my answers are from my experiences and, naturally
don't cover all the occurrences of iSeries/AS/400s.   There are always
exceptions in any community of computing platforms.

I do, indeed, find the AS/400/iSeries, or whatever the "de jour" name
is, to be a rock solid platform and I hope it will stay around and be
expanded upon, but I have my doubts.  

The comment "it(meaning the iSeries/AS/400/et all) and DB2..." means
that, for the most part, iSeries seem to be  used solely as transaction
processors often using packaged solutions(again, yes, there are always
exceptions) and with smallish (less than 500 interactive users and/or
active batch jobs(not the one's used to maintain the system.)  
Mainframes and mid-ranges tend to be used across the entire gamut of
data processing possibilities mostly with non-packaged solutions, with
large numbers of interactive users and active batch jobs and for much
more than transaction processing.   When the real DB2 is used, or Oracle
for that matter, the software is often custom, with a huge number of
users and transactions at one time, and, often the RDBMS is used for
additional activities like data marts, data warehousing and data mining.
 Often this requires DB2 or Oracle to be generated on the same box but
for different types of tasks.  These databases are often HUGE and have
to be "managed".   By that I mean, they have to be architected and
tuned, each differently for its own purpose.   Since the iSeries DB2 is
considered "integrated" with the OS, the same is not as easy, especially
if DB2/400 is used like the legacy flat file data base used in that
environment since the S/38 days.   Now, you COULD architect and manage
things on DB2/400 somewhat like the real DB2s but it would take a change
in how iSeries shops and people think and do.   This is one reason why
you don't find very many OEM products to "manage" DB2 on the iSeries
like you do on the other platforms.  If the shops don't work like the
other RDBMS environments there is little reason to create any tools and,
hence, no market. 

More later,

Dave