RE: DB and App Agnosticism on the iSeries (thinkingabout:Question about UDB on iSeries) -- MIDRANGE-L

        I guess I'm just simplistic, stupid or something. If you purchase
software from my company, you are licensed by the machine (and free for an
off-site hot backup not in production). If you purchase maintenance, you get
additional functionality with your updates. If you don't, you only get
fixes. Pretty simple. When we get to a new release, we change the pricing
structure to compensate for the new functionality. We do integration
licenses, contractor/consultant licenses, non-profits and commercial
licenses. They all seem satisfied with our policies.
        If I buy a car with a service contract, I expect it to be fixed. If
a new model comes out with a better engine and mine goes down, I don't
expect to get the new, more powerful engine, just the same one I had before.
If the old engine had a defect and wouldn't work properly, I expect the an
engine as good as or better than I originally purchased and operational. I
guess "Fair" is a word that isn't used much any more.
        I'll never understand how people like Microsoft and Oracle can
promise to fix things, not fix them and charge to "upgrade" to the next
release. The next release never contains the fixes, but always contains more
functionality that usually doesn't work as advertised. Then you get the "we
will fix it in the next release" saga all over again.


John Brandt 
iStudio400.com 
(903) 523-0708 
Home of iS/ODBC - MSSQL access from iSeries and RPG. 




-----Original Message-----
From: vhamberg@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:vhamberg@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 4:22 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: DB and App Agnosticism on the iSeries
(thinkingabout:Questionabout UDB on iSeries)


I agree. Different from what I was describing. The company I was with would
issue a license for a new machine, so long as the customer was on annual
maintenance/support. A certain trust level is assumed, that the old machine
will not be used anymore.

Vern

-------------- Original message -------------- 

> My comment about "upgrade extortion" was actually referring to a 
> situation when we had a hardware upgrade -- we didn't change the 
> software tier, or the number of users, or even the interactive CPW, 
> but were nonetheless required to pay a substantial (mid 4 figures) fee 
> to receive a license key for the new machine. 
> 
> I still think it was not ethical. 
> 
> On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 05:27:38 -0600, Vernon Hamberg wrote: 
> > A different point of view, perhaps, from your understandable position: 
> > 
> > Sounds as if some companies are extreme in this, hence the comments here

> > and in other posts on this list. However, there is effort associated
with 
> > verifying that a product works on a new release of the OS. I worked for
an 
> > ISV who charged an annual maintenance fee. It would get you phone
support, 
> > upgrades at no additional cost, esp. when IBM changed the OS. Now if the

> > product is stable and you find you don't need support for the time, you 
> > could go off maintenance and support. But if you need to ask a question
or 
> > something breaks because of whatever reason, expect to pay a re-up
charge. 
> > 
> > But if you are paying for maintenance and support AND are charged for 
> > OS-related upgrades, I think you're getting gouged a little, at least. 
> > 
> > Vern 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > At 12:22 PM 12/1/2004, you wrote: 
> > 
> > 
> > > > An excellent example of this is "upgrade extortion" that has become 
> > > > rampant in the iSeries world. It is in my opinion unethical to 
> > > > require additional charges when the machine changes and no
additional 
> > > > function is delivered, but they do it anyway. The "company" sees an 
> > > > opportunity to move money from our pockets to theirs. The agents of 
> > > > the company who implement and enforce these policies are behaving 
> > > > unethically. 
> > > 
> > >And in the zSeries world. I think it even applies in the xSeries 
> > >(Wintel) world as well for businesses. 
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