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  2. MIDRANGE-L
  3. October 2004

RE: Write statement

No Rob, 

I wouldn't do that.  At the point of writing a record I'd have already
ensured that the user has entered valid data, by the time I write the record
I've already done the check.  Don't you do any validity checking at input
time or are your entry programs just blind, blank screens that let your
users enter in what ever data they happen to think might be right?  You've
no prompt programs that pop up and allow a user to pick a code from a list
of valid codes.  No drop down menus that have a list of valid selections to
pick from.  No scan screens to allow them to pick a valid entity, and no
validity checking when they hit the submit button or the enter key to make
sure what they've entered is valid making them fix it before allowing them
to get past the entry screen???

I'm not saying not to use RI in your database design, RI is a good thing but
it doesn't replace good coding it's just a backup to it.  What do you think
can be done automatically?  I suppose if one of your programs try to write
to a database file and hit an RI constraint problem then your program just
blows up, sits there with a message that your operator has to answer and/or
pass on to you the programmer?  If you code properly the user won't be able
to enter invalid data.  I mean, this is really the only time you need to do
heavy validity checking.  That and at times when you are perhaps integrating
data from outside your system.  If you're getting data problems during your
batch processing then you have way more problems then RI is going to fix for
you.

Again, I believe that RI is important, it is a backup to good coding and the
odd chance of bad data getting into your system through 3rd party entry
points like data utility programs such as DBU.

John.

-----Original Message-----
From: rob@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:rob@xxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 1:24 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: RE: Write statement

I disagree.  Why should we do everything manually when it can be done 
automatically?  In other words, in your 'good code' when you write an item 
to the item master do you first check to see if the item class exists? 
That the gl account for the item class, which is stored in the item class 
file, is a valid GL account?  An so on and so forth, up the tree?  I bet 
not.  However I once had a customer lay out requirements that we had to do 
exactly that.  And on a DOS PC with just the freebie basic supplied.  (And 
there was a response time specification also.)

And why use a key on a file when anyone who can write 'good code' can do a 
perfectly good bill of material's explosion using a chain chase sequence 
with direct files?

I have seen files with keys on the item master that didn't even specify 
unique.  And the ASSUMPTION is that all maintenance is done via the one 
file maintenance program.  However in these days of mergers, etc, that 
assumption will bite you in the end.  Or, heaven forbid, you have to work 
with others.  And the team mentality may have updates coming from a C/S or 
web based application.  They won't be using your file maintenance program. 
 But you're saying that all code should be duplicated in all programs that 
access that file.  I say horse hocky.

Rob Berendt
-- 
Group Dekko Services, LLC
Dept 01.073
PO Box 2000
Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com





John Wallroff <JWALLROFF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
Sent by: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
10/06/2004 11:20 AM
Please respond to
Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>


To
"'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'" <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
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Subject
RE: Write statement






OMG, that whole "Assume" analogy is so 70's.

I think the biggest problem is with programmers that think their database
design takes the place of good coding.  Referential constraints are meant 
to
be a last line of defense in database maintenance.  They don't take the
place of good program code.

-----Original Message-----
From: rob@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:rob@xxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 10:56 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: Write statement

Is that the ONLY condition that will cause it?  I don't think so.
What other conditions may cause such an error?
- File full
- Duplicate key
- error on the trigger program associated with the file
- referential constraint error.

I think the biggest problem we have in getting developers to start using 
triggers, constraints and basically coming out of the 70's with their 
database design is a fear that they will have to bring their coding out of 

the 70's also.

Goes back to the basic lesson:  Assume can be broken down into three words 

A$$/u/me, or, you make an a$$ out of u and me when you assume.

Rob Berendt
-- 
Group Dekko Services, LLC
Dept 01.073
PO Box 2000
Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com





MWalter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
Sent by: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
10/06/2004 10:45 AM
Please respond to
Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>


To
Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
cc

Fax to

Subject
Re: Write statement







Duplicate Key on an Unique file.

Thanks,

Mark

Mark D. Walter
Senior Programmer/Analyst
CCX, Inc.
mwalter@xxxxxxxxxx
http://www.ccxinc.com


 
                      "Dwayne Allison" 
                      <Dwayne.Allison@aaga        To:       "Midrange 
Systems Technical Discussion" <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx> 
                      i.com>                      cc: 
                      Sent by:                    Subject:  Write 
statement 
                      midrange-l-bounces@m 
                      idrange.com 
 
 
                      10/06/2004 11:42 AM 
                      Please respond to 
                      Midrange Systems 
                      Technical Discussion 
 
 




Hello All,

What condition will cause '50' to equal '1'?


Operation    Factor 2                             LO
WRITE        ARREC                                50

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