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Hi John, the theory of economics predicts that there would be american TATAs exploiting all the out of work programmers with low wage, US based, programming jobs. My usual suspect in something like this are the US government laws that inflate the cost of employees, but that theory does not hold under close scrutiny. A lot of my colleagues are under or unemployed, so I am very concerned about what is going on. IBM could certainly help the western programmer by selling the iSeries line to a company that believes in it. ( knock first on the MS door ) -Steve -----Original Message----- From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of John Brandt Sr. Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 11:15 AM To: 'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion' Subject: RE: The Journal News: Flow of jobs overseas has human toll Steve, Not if the companies who are hiring refuse to consider US workers. EDS regularly lays off US workers and replaces the with H-1B's. Recently, they laid off an American worker with 5 years experience. Her job was not listed on the internal jobs network, but it was posted in a remote bulletin board. Only one person applied for her job. No degree. No experience. H-1B who had been in the US for 3 weeks. Of course, EDS denies it and the employees don't have access to any HR documentation to prove it. TATA will not hire Americans for any position, unless they absolutely are required by the customer to do so. They have stated that American workers are not qualified to work at TATA because they are not trained in TATA's proprietary software package. Check their website, or one of their employees, if you can find one that will talk about it. The package doesn't exist. John Brandt iStudio400.com -----Original Message----- From: Steve Richter [mailto:srichter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 10:08 AM To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion Subject: RE: The Journal News: Flow of jobs overseas has human toll something does not make sense about all of this. Doesnt the theory of supply and demand predict that there will be plenty of $20 per hour programming jobs available in the US? -Steve -----Original Message----- From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Steve Landess Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 9:39 AM To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion Subject: Re: The Journal News: Flow of jobs overseas has human toll You obviously haven't been victimized by this trend yet, Pete, or you'd be singing a different tune. I am facing financial ruin if it continues. Steve Landess Austin, Texas (512) 423-0935 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Hall" <pbhall@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 2:03 AM Subject: Re: The Journal News: Flow of jobs overseas has human toll > At 23:10 07/28/2003, Janet Krueger wrote: > >The New York Times article on IBM seems to be generating a lot of other > >press articles on the flow of job overseas, such as the one below... > > > >http://www.thejournalnews.com/newsroom/072703/d0127offshore.html > > That's really sad. Capitalism is really biting us here, but isn't it > working the way it's supposed to work? Sure many jobs are moving off shore. > We're feeling major pain. Gradually, wages in other countries will rise as > the standard of living, and the experience and expectations of the people > in those places become similar to ours in North America. Our standard of > living will drop. Theirs will raise. Eventually we'll all be the same. Is > that a bad thing? Obviously it's bad from the viewpoint of the US > programmer, but is it unfair? Isn't it just a tad arrogant to expect all > the good stuff to be available only to those of us who, by accident of > birth, happened to end up in Topeka or Baltimore or Toronto? This is not a > helpful thing to the guy who earned $120K last year and is now working 10PM > to 6AM at Stop and Go, but have we the right to call it unfair? It's really > difficult to think of ME as a bit of cosmic flotsam, but what right have I > to assume that I am anything but? I don't like it either, but before the > flames start, think about it. > > > Pete Hall > pbhall@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > http://www.pbhall.us/ > > _______________________________________________ > This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing list > To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, > visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l > or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx > Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives > at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l. > > _______________________________________________ This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing list To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l. _______________________________________________ This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing list To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l. --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. 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