Re: The Journal News: Flow of jobs overseas has human toll

Pete,
The early writings and discussions of "capitalism" had many references to a
responsibility to your community, the welfare of the country, your workers,
etc. It was not about this driving force to create capital only for the
"owners". I think we have been seeing a repeat of the robber-barons of the
19th century. Just because it is done in the name of capitalism does not
make it so.
jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Brandt Sr." <pgmr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'" <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 7:24 AM
Subject: RE: The Journal News: Flow of jobs overseas has human toll


> Pete,
> It isn't Capitalism that is biting us, it's simple greed and lack of
> control. Dumping is illegal in every country, and taking jobs from
qualified
> Americans with H-1B and L-1 visas is as well. We have had no enforcement
of
> these provisions of US law. Even when the changes to the H-1B visa were
> enacted in 2000, the passing of that legislation's legality is in
question.
> I don't mind competing with someone on a fair field. I can win in a
> head to head competition, and if they win, I can accept it. I just take
> exception when they come late at night, slip in the back door and take my
> things and have the guts to face me the next day and say "prove it". I
think
> we have the right to get the finger prints from the back door and from the
> knife in my back and find out who is to blame for the hole in the back of
my
> shirt.
> I do take exception to having spent thousands of dollars to send my
> children to college to train for a job that should be here, but isn't. At
> this moment, all of my financial information and complete medical history
is
> on computers in Bangalor and Bombay being supervised and accessed by
people
> who are not US citizens, do business with Laos, Libya and North Korea, and
> are not under either the scrutiny of Americans, nor subject to the US law
> that was created to protect me.
> As far as Stop and Go is concerned, I can't speak directly. I can
> tell you that EDS, who has the contract with 7-11 uses illegal H-1B's and
> L-1's and outsourcing extensively. That little "Grand Prairie, Texas"
> company is no longer a US company and most of it's corporate IT operations
> is either currently being done in India, or soon will be.
>
> "Give a man a fish, he can eat for a day. Teach him to fish and he
> can eat for a lifetime." Take his fish away, and what do you get?
>
> You tell me,
> John Brandt
> iStudio400.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pete Hall [mailto:pbhall@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 2:03 AM
> To: midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: The Journal News: Flow of jobs overseas has human toll
>
>
> At 23:10 07/28/2003, Janet Krueger wrote:
> >The New York Times article on IBM seems to be generating a lot of other
> >press articles on the flow of job overseas, such as the one below...
> >
> >http://www.thejournalnews.com/newsroom/072703/d0127offshore.html
>
> That's really sad. Capitalism is really biting us here, but isn't it
> working the way it's supposed to work? Sure many jobs are moving off
shore.
> We're feeling major pain. Gradually, wages in other countries will rise as
> the standard of living, and the experience and  expectations of the people
> in those places become similar to ours in North America. Our standard of
> living will drop. Theirs will raise. Eventually we'll all be the same. Is
> that a bad thing? Obviously it's bad from the viewpoint of the US
> programmer, but is it unfair? Isn't it just a tad arrogant to expect all
> the good stuff to be available only to those of us who, by accident of
> birth, happened to end up in Topeka or Baltimore or Toronto? This is not a
> helpful thing to the guy who earned $120K last year and is now working
10PM
> to 6AM at Stop and Go, but have we the right to call it unfair? It's
really
> difficult to think of ME as a bit of cosmic flotsam, but what right have I
> to assume that I am anything but? I don't like it either, but before the
> flames start, think about it.
>
>
> Pete Hall
> pbhall@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.pbhall.us/
>
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